By the way... Why the change with dodge?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Instead of setting Dodge = Basic Speed +3, I use Basic Speed * 1.6 rounded down.

This gives the same result for average humans (Speed 5), but actually scales reasonably as Speed gets lower or higher. It eliminates how a low Speed (eg, 2) character can get a +3 boost out of nowhere that could potentially more than double their Dodge (to 5), but for some reason at higher Speed (eg, 10) will get only a modest increase (to 13). Using the multiplicative method, Speed 2 guy gets a Dodge of 3 (3.2 rounded down), and Speed 10 guy gets a Dodge of 16. This feels more realistic to me. YMMV.

Not to say your idea is necessarily bad, but Dodge is not a linear scale at all. Doubling dodge has no particular meaning.

Also, I'd argue that each subsequent point of dodge is worth more than the one before, not less. Going from 2 to 5 dodge is almost worthless...A dodge of 5 gives you a marginally useful defense if you AoD and retreat/drop, but that's about the best I can say for it. Going from 10 to 13 means you go from being hit half the time to being hit ~1/6th of the time. And your retreating/dropping dodge becomes as sure as can be, or able to soak a bunch of penalties and still be very good.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Instead of setting Dodge = Basic Speed +3, I use Basic Speed * 1.6 rounded down.

This gives the same result for average humans (Speed 5), but actually scales reasonably as Speed gets lower or higher. It eliminates how a low Speed (eg, 2) character can get a +3 boost out of nowhere that could potentially more than double their Dodge (to 5), but for some reason at higher Speed (eg, 10) will get only a modest increase (to 13). Using the multiplicative method, Speed 2 guy gets a Dodge of 3 (3.2 rounded down), and Speed 10 guy gets a Dodge of 16. This feels more realistic to me. YMMV.

Wouldn't it be simpler to make it *1.5, rounded up?

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by The Benj

Wouldn't it be simpler to make it *1.5, rounded up?

Eh, I guess in a sort of pentaphile way, it's simpler. I prefered * 1.6, since it was exactly 8 at average Speed 5, and despite it resolving to 8 if it was *1.5 rounded up, I'd know it was really 7.5. I also prefer the somewhat lower Dodge scores immediately below Speed 5.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

However, it can still be a relatively few number of seconds. Note the "Critical Succcess always hits" rule. At Skill-16 this is 6 or less or about 10%.

That has always struck me as really extreme. An absolute effect that can be achieved 10% of the time by combatants who don't even need to be particularly skilled.

A fix could be to chance it so that on a critical success, the target gets a -4 penalty to his defence roll. That way it's still very nifty for one part, and rather problematic for the other part, but it avoids the severe intellectual offence of the absolute.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

How? Again, the only way to increase your base dodge is to increase your speed, which is very expensive and, in many campaigns, liable to hard limits imposed by the GM. In 3rd edition, a strong character could easily crank his dodge up with armor which increases his PD. That's no longer an option.

At any rate, even if you do have a great dodge or other good defenses, attackers can still use Feint (which has been around since 1st edition) or Deceptive Attack to take defenses down. It tends to be inefficient in terms of the amount of time it takes to hurt the defender, but it does provide the option of something more contest-like.

It's RAW-legal to enhance one's Dodge by taking several levels of the Enhanced Dodge advantage. It costs 10 CP/lvl, but with Limitations it can be reduced drastically. Even to the RAW-mandated minimum of 2 CP/lvl.

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

It's RAW-legal to enhance one's Dodge by taking several levels of the Enhanced Dodge advantage. It costs 10 CP/lvl, but with Limitations it can be reduced drastically. Even to the RAW-mandated minimum of 2 CP/lvl.

Isn't it 15/level?

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

Isn't it 15/level?

Yes, I do believe it is. So only slightly cheaper than buying your Speed up.

[smurf]

A Moderately pointed charater could have an Speed of 7.

Let's say it's an awesome 'martial artist' and give it Combat Reflexes and 3 levels of enhanced dodge. Giving a +4 bonus.

Maybe there are some points pooled into quicker movement, IIRC +2 Speed would cost 40pts.

So far our fairly good dodger has spend Attributes (120pts) + Advantages (60pts) + secondary (40pts) = 220pts.

That means it will have a dodge of 16. Therefore deceptive attacks are good in this scenario.

Also being shot at the dodger must roll against their dodge vs the amount of bullets that 'hit'. Every point under is how many bullets missed.

But 220pts in defence you'd expect it to be good.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

Isn't it 15/level?

Yes it is, sorry.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Instead of setting Dodge = Basic Speed +3, I use Basic Speed * 1.6 rounded down.

This gives the same result for average humans (Speed 5), but actually scales reasonably as Speed gets lower or higher. It eliminates how a low Speed (eg, 2) character can get a +3 boost out of nowhere that could potentially more than double their Dodge (to 5), but for some reason at higher Speed (eg, 10) will get only a modest increase (to 13). Using the multiplicative method, Speed 2 guy gets a Dodge of 3 (3.2 rounded down), and Speed 10 guy gets a Dodge of 16. This feels more realistic to me. YMMV.

Only how much that +3 is worth rather depends on where on the bell curve it gets added, surely?

if my speed is 3 and I add +3 I increase my chance of dodging by 8.8%

if my speed is 6 and I add +3 I increase my chance of dodging by 28.24%

and that modest increase for the speed 10 chap is 50% to 83.8%!

N =N <=N
3 0.46% 0.46%
4 1.39% 1.85%
5 2.78% 4.63%
6 4.63% 9.26%
7 6.94% 16.20%
8 9.72% 25.93%
9 11.57% 37.50%
10 12.50% 50.00%
11 12.50% 62.50%
12 11.57% 74.07%
13 9.72% 83.80%
14 6.94% 90.74%
15 4.63% 95.37%
16 2.78% 98.15%
17 1.39% 99.54%
18 0.46% 100.00%