What are the best magical systems in GURPS?

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by lugaid

So, kind of a "magic as powers" system, I guess, but also "magic as regular skills".

That's my aim with my current spell system. Magic as Powers with each power (that uses any rolls) being attached to a skill that already exists. This gives a neat 'upgrade' feel to regular skills when you start using magic. That and the myriad of accessory perks that turn a skill into a 'tools-less' spell. It combines both the feel of having to study to be a mage (gotta learn your skills!) and the variability to let a mage be any role instead of the normally generalist that a lot of magic systems tend to push.

[SimonAce]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I'd just like to put in a word for the poor maligned core magic system. SNIP .

Agreed.

I've used the core magic system quite a bit and it works well, is fun to play and lets the players feel like wizards.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by SimonAce

Agreed.

I've used the core magic system quite a bit and it works well, is fun to play and lets the players feel like wizards.

I used it for well over a decade. While I agree it is fun to play and let's you feel like a wizard, it also generally feels like putting on god mode in video games, both as a player and as a GM.

[AlexanderHowl]

How is the core magical system god mode? I can get much better results from RPM.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

How is the core magical system god mode? I can get much better results from RPM.

I mean, while that is true, I don't think it counters the point that core magic system can feel like god mode. One of the first games I ever played in GURPS was a 200 cp post-vampire-apocalypse tl6+2 adventure game. My character was the only wizard. I started with a 14 IQ, magery 3, a few extra FP, fit, breath control, and 45 cp in spells. I was the only character who survived the first arch of the game where things went horribly wrong, and I survived by having wildly more options and answers than anyone else.

I'd bought another 15 spells or so during that arch, and then the GM gave a point dump at the end of the arch so I bought another 5 magery all gadget limited so that my skill levels with Hard spells would be good enough to have notable cost reductions. From that point on I had at least partial solutions to any problem the GM could throw at us, and it only got worse as sessions past and I wracked up more points to spend on new spells.

Eventually I just retired the dude because he was so powerful that solving the worlds problems by building vampire proofed cities and rebuilding civilization was his priority instead of adventuring. And the GM, who had been a really great sport, breathed a sigh of relief.

I mean, I can hit god mode harder with RPM. But it's also a lot messier getting there and usually ends up with more rules arguments, and it also only lasts until the GM decides he doesn't feel those spells should work that way anymore.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

How is the core magical system god mode? I can get much better results from RPM.

From what I've put together RPM is both more annoying and more powerful than Magic, which are my main two complaints about Magic. If anything, what you're saying only turns me off of RPM more.

[hal]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I mean, while that is true, I don't think it counters the point that core magic system can feel like god mode. One of the first games I ever played in GURPS was a 200 cp post-vampire-apocalypse tl6+2 adventure game. My character was the only wizard. I started with a 14 IQ, magery 3, a few extra FP, fit, breath control, and 45 cp in spells. I was the only character who survived the first arch of the game where things went horribly wrong, and I survived by having wildly more options and answers than anyone else.

I'd bought another 15 spells or so during that arch, and then the GM gave a point dump at the end of the arch so I bought another 5 magery all gadget limited so that my skill levels with Hard spells would be good enough to have notable cost reductions. From that point on I had at least partial solutions to any problem the GM could throw at us, and it only got worse as sessions past and I wracked up more points to spend on new spells.

Eventually I just retired the dude because he was so powerful that solving the worlds problems by building vampire proofed cities and rebuilding civilization was his priority instead of adventuring. And the GM, who had been a really great sport, breathed a sigh of relief.

I mean, I can hit god mode harder with RPM. But it's also a lot messier getting there and usually ends up with more rules arguments, and it also only lasts until the GM decides he doesn't feel those spells should work that way anymore.

For what it is worth a LOT of how things are handled by the GM will also determine how strong or weak GURPS MAGIC can be for a given campaign. Having run GURPS since 1986, I've evolved a few foundational behaviors or bedrocks for my campaigns that I don't deviate from too often. My number 1 rule for GURPS MAGIC is that players may only place 1 character point per game run in any SKILL (be it magic or otherwise). I also require that down time pass for when a teacher teaches new spells or a student learns from a book. Players learn very early on just how precious a spell can be. In addition, alternative methods of instilling skills is not a "commonplace type of thing".

Me, I prefer GURPS MAGIC over any of the other possibilities for magic in the game. Having used it for all these decades, I dare say that if I were at a convention and had to do a pick up game on the spot, that I could run just about anything with GURPS MAGIC without any problem.

Magery as an advantage may not be improved beyond what you start the campaign with short of Divine intervention or Greater Wishes - both of which are in short supply. Magery 4 has been permitted in a GURPS MAGIC campaign exactly ONCE - and the player's comment of "What are Magery 4 only spells" to which I said "There are none, unless I actively create a few".

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

From what I've put together RPM is both more annoying and more powerful than Magic, which are my main two complaints about Magic. If anything, what you're saying only turns me off of RPM more.

I've found RPM quite nice in play without Adept (or at least highly restricting the option for time reducing Adept). Yes, it give the magician lots of options, but they require some planning.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by hal

For what it is worth a LOT of how things are handled by the GM will also determine how strong or weak GURPS MAGIC can be for a given campaign. Having run GURPS since 1986, I've evolved a few foundational behaviors or bedrocks for my campaigns that I don't deviate from too often. My number 1 rule for GURPS MAGIC is that players may only place 1 character point per game run in any SKILL (be it magic or otherwise). I also require that down time pass for when a teacher teaches new spells or a student learns from a book. Players learn very early on just how precious a spell can be. In addition, alternative methods of instilling skills is not a "commonplace type of thing".

Magery as an advantage may not be improved beyond what you start the campaign with short of Divine intervention or Greater Wishes - both of which are in short supply. Magery 4 has been permitted in a GURPS MAGIC campaign exactly ONCE - and the player's comment of "What are Magery 4 only spells" to which I said "There are none, unless I actively create a few".

The problem with these solutions is that it's just telling the players to start with an abundance of points in spells and Magery because they can't get it later (or that easily), which is where the problem already is.

Originally Posted by hal

Me, I prefer GURPS MAGIC over any of the other possibilities for magic in the game. Having used it for all these decades, I dare say that if I were at a convention and had to do a pick up game on the spot, that I could run just about anything with GURPS MAGIC without any problem.

I think I can agree with this (personally, I have an easier time with Magic as Powers).

[AlexanderHowl]

Honestly, the simplest magical system is probably Magic as Powers when the GM is willing to do the heavy lifting of designing abilities.