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Old 04-17-2008, 07:32 AM   #171
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
If you did bother to roll you'd get a lot of "cast spell on self" and "cast spell on random ally" and other things that equaled "no effect".
I just got a mental image of a magician casting a spell from the food college and geting a "spell cast on random ally" critical failure. "Merlin, make me a sandwich!" *poof!* "You're a sandwich!"
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:08 AM   #172
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Good point about low power single college mages, Fred. It depends on how many you actually have. One or two guys with Earth college won't completely alter the entire world,IMO. Now, they are going to make a splash locally.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:15 AM   #173
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Default Re: Yrth technology

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Originally Posted by combatmedic
Good point about low power single college mages, Fred. It depends on how many you actually have. One or two guys with Earth college won't completely alter the entire world,IMO. Now, they are going to make a splash locally.
Actually, I see these guys being (a powerful) part of the masons guild. It's not so much a question of competition, but useful cooperation. In a big project, use the magically enhanced guys to do a few of the trickier bits faster/cheaper/safer while the majority of the work is carried out the old fashioned way.
Just like healing aspected casters are likely to be part of the local health care establishment rather than setting up competing enterprises and trying to drive the mundanes out of business.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:17 AM   #174
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
Bah! <waves hands> Critical failures are supposed to be for _dramatic_ purposes.

I wouldn't even bother rolling crit fails for pot-making. It'd all be "puff of smoke and your pot is all lumpy looking". If you did bother to roll you'd get a lot of "cast spell on self" and "cast spell on random ally" and other things that equaled "no effect".
That's not a critical failure, that's a normal failure.

I'd probably not invoke demons, but magic is tricky and shouldn't be trivialized with such a mundane result for a CRITICAL failure. Puff of smoke and a lumpy pot is hardly dramatic. For an ordinary mundane potter, I'd probably do something where the kiln drastically overheats and cracks. Maybe an accident where all the pots on a shelf break.

So for a mage getting a critical, especially one working with stone, he'd get something dramatic.

GM: You critically fail. The stone you've been working on explodes and sends shards of rock flying in all directions. The pot is ruined. The smell of brimstone permeates the room and there is quite a bit of smoke. What do you do?

PC: I duck and throw up my arms to cover my eyes.

GM: OK, roll DX-2 to avoid getting hit by rocks.

PC: PC, I miss my roll by one.

GM: Not to bad, you manage to cover your eyes. You get a sliver of rock in your hand. It will probably leave a minor scar, but no real damage. Two of the pots fall from the shelf. One of them is chipped, but since they are hard stone rather than clay, the damage is minor. The chipped one will have to be repaired or sold at a discount.

BTW, people from the neighboring shop come rushing in to see what the commotion is all about.

NPC1: [Henri the potter next door to his friend] "See, I told you, nothing good can come from making pots from magic. Hand made is best. I'll bet those pots have a curse on them.

NPC2: [Harry] "Ah, you are just jealous." Maximillion makes the best pots in town. They're so durable and sturdy. I heard Baron Divineh ordered a dozen pots last week.
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Old 04-17-2008, 09:40 AM   #175
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
That's not a critical failure, that's a normal failure.

I'd probably not invoke demons, but magic is tricky and shouldn't be trivialized with such a mundane result for a CRITICAL failure.
That's the way I see it. I've never viewed critical spell failures as a simple dramatic tool, but as a balancing one... to make characters think twice about over-using magic *shrug*
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:05 PM   #176
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Yes. After all, if we are in a discussion about what magic would alter, saying that a critical failure should be treated as a dramatic tool is a nonsense.

The thing is, for the LESS CPs, a "normal mason" could have IQ 11, Master Mason Talent +3 (the CP cost of Magery 1), and a Skill of 16, with just 8 CPs. For the talent, he would me more respected, since his creations are just as good as those magical, but he can do a lot more - since the talent applies for more skills. And using a skill to make a cup it's very different than using a spell. As creations are going simpler, the spell got the advantage of speed at it's side. As the work increases finesse, and gets more intricate, the spell loses ground. A Shape Metal spell could never do a fine quality knife, frex.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:23 PM   #177
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(This is a long post, sorry)

And Gurps Fantasy writes about that on pages 64-67. I'll post some in here, because I think it's relevant, and avoids the "IDHMBWM" thing...

GURPS FANTASY
"One basis for variant technology in a fantasy setting is the use of magic to improve technology. achieve this by augmenting either the abilities of the technologists, or the tools and resources they use.
The basis for the first approach is the Talents as Magic rules (p. 160). What if an armorer or engineer gained augmented skill through suitable rituals, perhaps by praying to Thoth or Hephaestus for aid in his work in the form of Artificer Talent? Other gods might enhance the skills of farmers (Green Thumb), physicians (Healer), architects (Master Builder), or even mathematicians (Mathematical Ability). Traditional Japanese mathematicians made offerings of their theorems, carved into fine wooden plaques, at Shinto shrines, and a god or spirit might reward such devotion. In the second approach, magic substitutes for certain kinds of technology, and thus helps other technologies advance. This could happen in various ways.

Improved Materials
A magical world may have superior materials, whether found in the natural environment, such as orichalcum (p. 23) or Tolkien’s mithril, made by alchemy, or strengthened by enchantments or holy blessings. Armor or fortifications could weigh less but be harder to breach, or swords could have sharper or longer-lasting edges. There are also subtler possibilities: a blast furnace with magically heatresistant brick, a mile-high tower that won’t collapse under its own weight, or a flying craft light enough to be man-powered.

Power Sources
With the widespread use of mills in the Middle Ages, speculations about perpetual motion gained an audience. A captive spirit might keep a wheel turning with no physical energy source, or a wheel made of celestial matter might share the endless turning motion of the heavens. Once steam engines come into use, elemental spirits might induce them to run more efficiently, or magically improved materials could let them run at higher pressure without bursting.

Automata
Spirits can do more than just move; they can perceive, communicate, remember, and even think. A fantasy
world that learned to control spirits, or gain their cooperation, might have its Information Revolution hundreds of years early. If the same spirits could control the motion of artificially made bodies, the result would be an early age of robots, whether in the form of man-shaped golems and homunculi, or of self-moving tools and artificial songbirds. A fantasy world could have an artificial intelligence acting as the library for a university – or the tax assessor for a government – or the inquisitor for a church.

Biotech
Living creatures can be altered by changing either their environments or heredity. In a magical setting, spells, enchantments, or rituals may produce a more favorable environment, leading to better crop yields (see Agrarian Magic, p. 95). Better nutrition may make people taller and stronger.
Herbal or alchemical elixirs may cure diseases and infections and speed the healing of wounds, lowering the death rate. Alchemical techniques may transform the human body (or the bodies of other living things) or allow strange experiments in crossbreeding (see Alchemical Hybrids, p. 51). Spirit magic could uplift individual organisms, and perhaps entire species. If these various sorts of life magic work well, the world may look like that old favorite of science fiction, the civilization that developed biological science and technology earlier than physical.

TECHNOLOGICALLY ENHANCED MAGIC
Mages in a technological society may use various devices to enhance their own spellcasting or enchanting. The same may apply to other magical arts.

Precision Instruments
An alchemist working in a hightech laboratory gains some effective skill (see GURPS Magic), which is better than he could achieve with traditional equipment and ingredients. Similar benefits may accrue to any other mage who manipulates natural forces in some way. Precision instruments may also aid observation and magic that involves observation. For example, if astrology works, an astrologer with a good telescope and a stabilized mount gains +TL/2 to skill rolls to interpret planetary configurations (see Soothsaying, p. 150).

Industrial Magic
Standard magic is conducted like a handicraft; single workers or small teams cast spells, as artisans turn out handiwork. Can magic be organized like a factory or an assembly line? If so, the amount of magic will increase tremendously; this may lead to a verycommon-enchantment setting. At TL6, a magical production line that creates any enchanted object might exist. A process of enchantment in itself, the energy cost is twice that of setting up a magical workspace to build a prototype item, or (number of prerequisite spells +1) ¥ (800 energy points). Each production line can only produce one kind of item. It turns out one copy of the prototype in (energy cost of enchantment/4) hours. Each mage working on the line can contribute 10 energy points per working day, reducing the cost of hiring mages. Another option is alchemical production on a production line scale. See Alchemic Inventions and apply the standard rules for production lines (p. B156). In a setting where symbols are magically potent, a printing press can be a potent magical production line, turning out multiple copies of a spell. Available at TL4, it works just like any other magical production line. The printing must be of extremely high quality to make the symbols work. Finally, if naturally magical creatures or substances exist, a society may harvest them on an industrial scale. High-tech societies with magic may have greenhouses or farms raising magical herbs, or deep mines or wells seeking deposits of magical minerals.

Mechanically Powered Magic
Magic can obviously control, and perhaps create, the kind of energy that physicists study. Spells such as Ignite Fire, Light, and Lightning all cause a release of energy. Can it work the other way? If so, an enchanted machine can provide magical energy as long as it has power. A power storage system, such as a mainspring, battery, or flywheel, will supply power until its stored energy runs out. A fuelburning engine, such as a steam engine, internal combustion engine, or fuel cell, will keep supplying energy so long as it is refueled. In a world where perpetual motion machines are possible, they will provide energy until physically destroyed. Regardless of the machine’s power, the value of the enchantment would limit the energy output. An enchanted battery would not discharge until its power was put to use, but would always be visibly magical to anyone with Magery. An enchanted engine would release energy whenever it was running; unused energy would simply dissipate into the environment. It would be visibly magical when running, but not when shut off. Starting the conversion process might require a small input of magical energy, perhaps from a magical battery.

Thaumaturgic Automata
Can a machine cast a spell? The answer depends on how magic works in the campaign setting. If magic is a product of consciousness, only a conscious machine – usually a computer with sophisticated artificial intelligence programming and high enough Complexity to run – can cast a spell. In an animistic setting, a conscious machine may have a spirit inhabiting it. In some settings, any conscious machine can use magic; others require a separate Magery 0 program. Spirits might not have fixed residence in specific computers, but travel between linked computers. Cyberpunk offered animistic and magical ideas as a metaphor for virtual reality or cyberspace; in a fantasy setting, these could be more than a metaphor. If magic involves the control of mana, a computer may carry out a spell with a mana co-processor.The computer will still need to understand the spell, which will require enough complexity to process a sophisticated language, but less than needed to become conscious. Finally, if symbols themselves have magical power; any machine that manipulates the appropriate magical symbols can work magic. A system as simple as a music box or a prayer wheel may cast a single spell infinite times. A system comparable to a word processor, but with magical symbols programmed into it, could assemble spells from a library, or even work out new spells from thaumatological principles. This would probably involve manipulating symbols with extremely high resolution, comparable to that for magical printing presses; this ability could be Magery. Where do machines get the energy for spells? Typically, mana comes from the FP and HP of living organisms. Entities with the Machine meta-trait often don’t generate it. A mana coprocessor may contain systems that emulate mana-generating life processes or convert physical energy to mana. A symbol-manipulating machine may gain the necessary energy from the symbols themselves. A machine inhabited by a spirit draws energy for magic from the spirit’s FP and HP.


The underlined and italics formatting are mine.
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:27 PM   #178
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Default Re: Yrth technology

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Originally Posted by Pip Boy
I'll post some in here, because I think it's relevant, and avoids the "IDHMBWM" thing...
...but it does run into the whole "copyright" thing. No one minds quoting brief passages from the rules to resolve specific disputes or make focused points, but this would seem to be beyond the bounds of acceptable use.

(Of course, it's really up to SJ Games to make that call.)
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Old 04-17-2008, 01:44 PM   #179
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Then again, what's on forum it's theirs anyway, after all.
And it's a long post, not those 3 pages I've mentioned.
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Old 04-17-2008, 02:16 PM   #180
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip Boy
Then again, what's on forum it's theirs anyway, after all.
And it's a long post, not those 3 pages I've mentioned.
They do generally object to quoting more than what's necessary for "fair use" when it comes to their copyrighted material.
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