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Old 04-16-2008, 06:32 PM   #161
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip Boy
I hardly believe it that a Mage with Shape Earth 21, and a lot of Earth school spells at a high level would bother to manufacture stuff at industrial scale just for the money.
Well, he does have to make a living somehow and you can't go around building castles everyday.

I also tend to think that a mage craftsman would be more like a Johnny One-Spell than an Archmage.

Let's say a guy has IQ11 and Magery(Earth-only) at 1 and he starts out as an apprentice turning rocks into pots with Shape Earth.

Shape Earth has only 1 prereq and he only needs to put 1 pt in that. For 31 pts (not counting any Disads) he has Seek Earth-10 and Shape Earth-12. That's already probably enough to go around making "earthenware" pots and even counting FP recovery time he's working much faster than a potter and not spending anything on having a kiln.

With nothing but On the Job Training his Skill level goes up to 16 in 4 to 6 years (he's a 47 pt character now). He can branch out to Shape Metal now. He can make metal pots and any other simple thing (he's still only a 77 pt character at Shape Metal-16 and he's probably in his early 30s).

He might not get the +4 for "routine task" that a Blacksmith would but making horseshoes with magic takes much less skill than doing it with a hammer. It's more like working with modeling clay.

He can probably make simple armor like helmets without any particular Armory skill but investing just a few pts will give him a professional level with that and he's making expertly fitted suits of plate armor in _days_ instead of weeks or months,

So, if you give him 25 pts of Disads you've got a 60 pt character who can totally upend the armory and blacksmith business on a citywide basis (and he still only knows 3 spells).

Archmages are not needed to change the economy with magic.
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:41 PM   #162
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k
(How does one measure Mana, anyway?)
Energy expended on casting spells can be measured in "tenths" or "spells" (or something nice sounding in Latin that means the same thing).

It is easily observable that even the least spell will take one-tenth the stamina of an average mage. Thus you could have a 9 spell Apprentice or an 11/10ths Journeyman. When a mage can cast or maintain a 1/10th level spell indefinitely he can be declared a Master (or that spell at least).

Mana level probably could get described in the same terms the game system uses. Choose more dramatic adjectives than "High" or "Low" for flavor purposes if you want to.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:02 PM   #163
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Default Re: Yrth technology

[QUOTE=Fred Brackin]Well, he does have to make a living somehow and you can't go around building castles everyday.
[quote]

Castles aren't built in a day, and a highly skilled mage with the proper background certainly could build castles, towers, fortifications, and bridges for a living. Such a mage would need more than just the Earth spells. He/she would also need some building and craft skills - Architech(not sure if I got the name right) etc.

Quote:
I also tend to think that a mage craftsman would be more like a Johnny One-Spell than an Archmage.

Let's say a guy has IQ11 and Magery(Earth-only) at 1 and he starts out as an apprentice turning rocks into pots with Shape Earth.

Shape Earth has only 1 prereq and he only needs to put 1 pt in that. For 31 pts (not counting any Disads) he has Seek Earth-10 and Shape Earth-12. That's already probably enough to go around making "earthenware" pots and even counting FP recovery time he's working much faster than a potter and not spending anything on having a kiln.
OK, so he can make ugly utilitarian pots. Turning rocks into pots is 6 times the cost. With no create stone, he'll need to get good sized stones to work into pots. This means he needs to haul them himself or pay someone else to do so.

Quote:
With nothing but On the Job Training his Skill level goes up to 16 in 4 to 6 years (he's a 47 pt character now). He can branch out to Shape Metal now. He can make metal pots and any other simple thing (he's still only a 77 pt character at Shape Metal-16 and he's probably in his early 30s).
OK, he can make ugly utilitarian pots. With a skill of 16, they may look pretty good. He'll need some artistic skill to make them look wonderful and artistic. Most folks just using them won't care though.

BTW, a 77 pt. character is well above average. He's in the territory of someone who's a mastercraftsman.

Quote:
He might not get the +4 for "routine task" that a Blacksmith would but making horseshoes with magic takes much less skill than doing it with a hammer. It's more like working with modeling clay.
Given skill of 16 he probably doesn't need it. Of course, critical failure should ruin the pot and maybe leave something more problematic. I could see the pot shattering and sending shards of metal flying. Maybe putting an eye out or at least leaving the mage with a minor injury. Magic is tricky. It will rarely happen, but it will certainly happen at some point (not that mundane artisans don't have things like this happen; I knew a kid who was blinded in one eye by a small sliver of metal from an ax blade that came off as his dad was chopping wood).

Quote:
He can probably make simple armor like helmets without any particular Armory skill but investing just a few pts will give him a professional level with that and he's making expertly fitted suits of plate armor in _days_ instead of weeks or months,
Sure, which is why our adventurers can get outfitted for suits of armor and not have to be knights of the round table. ;-) BTW, this one mage now has moved on from making pots to making armour. He's probably owns his own shop and is supplying armor to wealthy patrons at considerable mark up since they want good armor fast. This still doesn't say he drives the local Armourer out of business, only that he takes a sizable share of the high end clientel who are bound to be paying more for their armour. This may force other armourers prices down somewhat also.

Quote:
So, if you give him 25 pts of Disads you've got a 60 pt character who can totally upend the armory and blacksmith business on a citywide basis (and he still only knows 3 spells).
Assuming he has good Admin and Merchant skills he has his own shop. Also that he stays healthy and doesn't meet with mishap. Replacing a mundane armourer will be much easier than replacing a magical one. As an adventure seed either the local underworld boss muscles in on the armourers business or the Armourers Guild puts out a hit on him.

Of course, the king is more likely to have said mage armourer come to his attention and bring him to court to work exclusively for the crown. The king's guard needs armour more than the towns people.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:27 PM   #164
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
OK, so he can make ugly utilitarian pots. Turning rocks into pots is 6 times the cost.
He doesn't need worked stone so it's only 2x cost. He can work it like soft clay for a minute or even more with maintenance and then it's ready to sell. He can turn the things out at 1-2 per hour. That's a lot short of industrial mass production but far more than doing it the hard way.

He only needs common rock and not good potter's clay and no fuel for a kiln either so it's more output with fewer costs.

The thing is that when he starts this routine he _is_ a 25 pt npc. If you really want to hold the line about magecraftsmen you've got to keep magery (even minor magery) _rare_.

Of course, mundanes would grow similarly through On The Job training too so even 25 pt npcs might not stay that low.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:46 PM   #165
combatmedic
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Default Re: Yrth technology

I still think most mages would find more interesting things to do than spend their lives making pots. I know I would, if I had cool magic powers. :)
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Old 04-16-2008, 10:35 PM   #166
LoneWolf23k
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Yrth technology

While we're on the subject of Enchantment, The Trappings of Technology by Demi Benson has an interesting set of optional rules for Enchantment to make Magic Items a bit more like technology, namely by making them cheaper to produce, though more likely to break down and wear out.

While regular Magic Items would still be nigh-eternal and costly to produce, Techno-Magic Items would be would have a finite usefulness, but would be cheaper to create. So yeah, you can get a +1 Puissance Magic Sword made on the cheap, but it won't last you a long, long time.
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Old 04-16-2008, 11:12 PM   #167
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
He doesn't need worked stone so it's only 2x cost. He can work it like soft clay for a minute or even more with maintenance and then it's ready to sell. He can turn the things out at 1-2 per hour. .
Until the demons get him.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:01 AM   #168
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2
Until the demons get him.
And his hired thugs beat up the demons. The vast majority of random demons aren't particularly dangerous.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:16 AM   #169
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatmedic
I still think most mages would find more interesting things to do than spend their lives making pots. I know I would, if I had cool magic powers. :)
If you only had minor magical ability and only related to Earth magic and magic was _hard_ to learn and you really did need to do that "earn a living" thing, well, you might make pots with magic rather than do it by hand the old-fashioned way.
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Old 04-17-2008, 07:22 AM   #170
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Yrth technology

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2
Until the demons get him.
Bah! <waves hands> Critical failures are supposed to be for _dramatic_ purposes.

I wouldn't even bother rolling crit fails for pot-making. It'd all be "puff of smoke and your pot is all lumpy looking". If you did bother to roll you'd get a lot of "cast spell on self" and "cast spell on random ally" and other things that equaled "no effect".
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