Yrth technology

[JAW]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

No, but I'm not looking for some bizarre explanation as to why magic hasn't changed the world. I'm not really comfortable with magic that doesn't change the world.

I saved the bit about the Banestorm as an example of a crit fail that is proportional to the intent and effort of the spell that failed. The Dark elves were trying to cast every orc off Yrth. So when it went bad it brought a lot more beings they didn't want.

Taking the 4 energy necessary to change a rock into a pot and turning it into the 20 energy (minimum) needed to summon a Demon is disproportionate and having someone roll 2 18s in a row doesn't justify it.

Even taking the energy that would turn 1 rock into 1 pot and using it to break every pot in the shop is disproportionate. You usually don't get results that favorable for rolling a crit success.

A crit fail should not be more bad than a crit success is good.

Well 2 18*s in a row happens like --- once in 46656 casting...

So youwe really been on average pushing out 18K+ points of magic energy making rocks into pots before that happens - I dont think getting a the attention of a demon - or more appropiately an angry earth elemental would be disproportionate..

[Pip Boy]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

But magic isn't a random and unpredicatable thing, at least according to the rules. It does certain things in set, established ways. It fails(if we are only using the RAW crit fail table) in set, predetermined ways. And there are plenty of universal forces that we meddle with on a daily basis, in the real world. We manipulate the properties of the strong and weak nuclear forces, gravity, and electomagnetic force to go about out daily business.

About magic: "This is a mysterious art in some settings, a precise science in others." - Gurps Magic, page 5. It certanly is NOT like that on Yrth, where the Banestorm itself isn't a failure in a set or established way.

On the Critical Spell Failure Table:
7 – Spell affects someone or something other than its intended target – friend, foe, or random object. Roll randomly or make an interesting choice.

10-11 – Spell produces nothing but a loud noise, bright flash of light, awful odor, etc.

So, again, by RAW, Magic IS unpredictable -- at least on Yrth.

Originally Posted by JAW

Well 2 18*s in a row happens like --- once in 46656 casting...

But NEVER on a critical failure of a skill.

And not just that, but on a normal mana society, only mages can cast a spell. And what's the born ratio for those on Yrth? On in every 10.000? 100.000?


***
And for the rest of the opinion, I guess Gurps Fantasy got it, right on.
Otherwise, it's like saying Jedi could be the best plastic surgeons in the galaxy because of the +4 bonus of TK on surgery...

[Kax]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

On Create Earth, Earth to Stone, Shape Stone, Shape Metal, etc. - do we know that these *aren't* in fact extensively used as part of Yrth's economy? Perhaps these, along with Bless Plants, etc., are why Yrth is able to support a larger percentage of its population as city dwellers rather than farmers, why those cities tend to have nice stone or at least stone-faced walls (and remember that worked stone is much harder to Shape), why there're enough metal weapons and armor to go around, and so on. There's not a lot of detail given about mining, smelting, and smithing activities of a more mundane sort in the setting, as far as I can recall.

Even if there is a line or two about slaves being sent to the mines or whatever, it's possible that either a) this is just done in areas where lots of Earth mages aren't available or are too busy with other tasks, 2) it's only done in areas with ores that aren't duplicated by vanilla Create Earth, or 3) it's more in the nature of make-work punishment than a productive economic activity

If you assume that Create Earth and Create Stone and so on create an Aristotlian archetypal Earth (fertile dirt with stones in it), Stone (granite), Stone (bronze), &c--a reasonable assumption given pretty well all of the writing on Create spells--then mining is still important for all other materials.

Iron, tin, copper, sandstone, marble, cinnibar, gems--all needing mines and miners.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

So, again, by RAW, Magic IS unpredictable -- at least on Yrth.

But NEVER on a critical failure of a skill.

Actually, things that can go very badly indeed use a confirmed crit fail. Crit fail on Driving: crash the car. Confirmed crit fail (not always used, but possible): everyone dies including the bird in the tree.

2 18s can happen on skills.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

And not just that, but on a normal mana society, only mages can cast a spell. And what's the born ratio for those on Yrth? On in every 10.000? 100.000?

2%. Ie, 1 in 50 humans. Although not all of them develop it.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kax

2%. Ie, 1 in 50 humans. Although not all of them develop it.

And on my Yrth the great majority of the humans who trained in magic were kept fully occupied in fertility and healing magic, the only kinds of magic that wasn't regarded with fear.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

And on my Yrth the great majority of the humans who trained in magic were kept fully occupied in fertility and healing magic, the only kinds of magic that wasn't regarded with fear.

Add field fertility and shaping earth for dams and stone for buildings (all done with village-wide rituals) and you're set. :)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Kax

Add field fertility and shaping earth for dams and stone for buildings (all done with village-wide rituals) and you're set. :)

I was including crop fertility. When Yrth had food shortages it was either warfare or demons.

[CraigM]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I was including crop fertility. When Yrth had food shortages it was either warfare or demons.

Which brings in the weather wizards as well, for both farming and transport.

My Yrth is low-tech but magically industrialised. Weather wizards powering sail transport, earth wizards managing construction, fire wizards dealing with sanitation, movement and creation mages working in manufacturing, etc. The occasional catastrophic magical accident is just one of the hazards of doing business. A demon makes a mess of your factory, but so does a boiler explosion.

The primary driver keeping the TL low on my Yrth is the mages' unwillingness to tolerate competition. Plus the wide assortment of scrying and mind-reading magic available to the assorted authorities.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by CraigM

Which brings in the weather wizards as well, for both farming and transport.

My Yrth is low-tech but magically industrialised. Weather wizards powering sail transport, earth wizards managing construction, fire wizards dealing with sanitation, movement and creation mages working in manufacturing, etc. The occasional catastrophic magical accident is just one of the hazards of doing business. A demon makes a mess of your factory, but so does a boiler explosion.

The primary driver keeping the TL low on my Yrth is the mages' unwillingness to tolerate competition. Plus the wide assortment of scrying and mind-reading magic available to the assorted authorities.

The primary driver keeping the TL low on my Yrth is the fact that human culture's population (including the halflings and goblins integrated into it) are maybe 30 million, tops and 90% of them are illiterate.