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Old 08-05-2010, 10:46 PM   #1
zylosan
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Do these weapons suck enough?

I am translating firearms from the Iron Kingdom setting into GURPS. With this in mind

"Note that Iron Kingdoms firearms are quite different than their real-world counterparts—they are not intended to adhere exactly to Earth history. More importantly, they are not intended to replace bows and crossbows in the game” (Iron Kingdoms PDF: Firearms Basics v1.0, p. 1). " They are also not intended to render both melee combat and heavy armor useless.

Questions:
Do these firearms have damage and other stats that makes them roughly equivelent to bows and crossbows in a general Fantasy setting. (Not a full out DF game though.) i.e for the normal range of strength and talents available to both the common soldier and common adventure?

Do they deal sufficent damage that they can a reasonable of penetrating the heavier DF armor while still giving a unit of soldiers in heavy plate at least some possiblity of closing to melee distance?

NOTE: I am aware that these weapons have worse damage, range, weight and accuracy than do similar weapons available in High Tech. This is intentional. I am not interested in if they are a realistic adaptation of exsisiting real world weapons nor the ratio of damage to bullet caliber, etc. GURPS is universal system and in this instance i want to make crappy guns that meet the objectives above. They are also expensive as hell so ignore that part.

Name Dam Acc Ran RoF Shots Bulk Rc Co Weight Notes

Pistol, Military 1d6+2 pi 1 60/650 1 1(5) -3 3 3,000 3/0.05

Pistol, Small 1d6+1 pi 1 50/550 1 1(5) -2 3 2,000 1.5/0.076

Pistol, Double-Barrel 1d6+2pi 1 60/650 1 2(8) -3 3 4,500 5/0.05

Pistol, Musket 1d6 pi 0 40/450 1 1(20) -3 3 1,750 3/0.05

Pistol, Pinlock 1d6-1 pi 0 30/400 1 1(20) -3 3 1,500 3.5/.05

Rifle, Long 2d6+2 pi+ 2 90/1000 1 1(6) -6 4 5,000 9/0.062

Rifle, Military 3d6+1 pi+ 3 80/900 1 1(6) -6 3 6,000 10.3/0.044

Rifle, Double-Barrel 3d6+1 pi+ 3 80/900 1 1(9) -7 3 9,000 14/0.044

Rifle, Musket 2d6+1 Pi++ 1 75/800 1 1(20) -6 4 4,000 10/.087

Rifle, Pinlock 1d6+2 pi 1 65/650 1 1(20) -7 4 3,500 11/.09

Rifle, Repeating Long Rifle 2d6+1 pi 3 75/800 1 6(2/60) 24,000 16/0.044 1,2

Rifle, Widowmaker 2d6+2 pi+ 4+2 120/1200 1 1(7) -6 3 13,000 11/.039

Blunderbuss, Slug 3d6+3 pi+ 1 60/600 1 1(8) -4 6 1,500 8/0.4
Blunderbuss, Shot 1d6 pi 0 30/450 1 1(10) -4 6 1,500 8/0.4 Spary

Carbine, Military 2d6+1 pi+ 2 60/700 1 1(5) -4 3 6,000 7/.09

Carbine, DB 2d6+1 pi+ 2 60/700 1 1(8) -5 4 9,000 12/0.09
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:59 PM   #2
lexington
 
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

The double barrel rifle should have either two Shot or an RoF of 1x2.

The bluderbuss w/ shot should probably be 1d-1 and it's RoF needs to be 1x9 rather than just 1.

Why would anyone manufacture the BD Carbine? It's noticeably inferior and more expensive. There's no niche for it.


In general I would raise all the reload times below ten up to ten, or higher. They can't compete against arrows in terms of RoF but massed fire from the military rifle is much more powerful than massed fire from bows. If they can reload with any swiftness the guns will probably win out.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Blasting Powder Firearms Description
Alchemical blasting powder consists of two powders (black and red) that explode when the two are combined. Each individual firearm requires a slightly different mix of these two powders to fire properly. Each powder is contained in a tiny individual silk pouch, both of which are tightly wrapped together in a single larger, cylindrical silk pouch with a bullet, forming a “charge”. The charge is then wrapped in ornate paper featuring the maker’s name, date, and the type of gun the charge is intended for.
Iron Kingdom firearms are breech-loading weapons, a bolt being pulled back, and the weapon “breaking in half” at a hinge point to permit loading. The combustion chamber into which a charge is loaded must be cleaned out and the charge loaded before the breech is closed and bolted. The trigger spring is then primed by means of a crank or lever and the weapon is ready to fire.
When fired, a needle pierces the charge pouch, rupturing both powder bags, causing the powders to mix and explode. The silk and paper flashes into dust, and the bullet are sent on its way in a spurt of flame and smoke.

Reloading
“During reloading, the operator has a few tasks to perform. First, the breech must be opened. (1 second) Next, the powdery remnants of the old charge need to be cleaned out. (2 seconds). Ammo is retrieved (1 second, fast draw reduces to 0). The new ammunition needs to be seated firmly in the firing chamber (1 second), and the breech needs to be closed (1 second). Lastly the spring-loaded firing mechanism must be wound or cocked. (1 seconds)
Reloading an IK firearm requires two seconds longer than standard GURPS breechloader due to the need to clean the remains of the previous shot from the chamber. The GURPS breechloaders assume the use of cased ammo in a metallic casing, which does not produce the same blast remains that the silk and paper cartridges leave behind. Some of the more awkward weapons take even longer to reload.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:03 PM   #4
zylosan
 
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

The DB Carbine is primarially a calvary weapon. Its shorter barrel length makes it easier to reload from horseback. (And it was on the list of weapons I translated.)

All DB weapons are double barrelled and should have a Shot of 2.

If the can fire both barrels at once, would that constitute a ROF of 2 or be two seperate attacks?
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:08 PM   #5
lexington
 
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zylosan View Post
The DB Carbine is primarially a calvary weapon. Its shorter barrel length makes it easier to reload from horseback. (And it was on the list of weapons I translated.)

All DB weapons are double barrelled and should have a Shot of 2.

If the can fire both barrels at once, would that constitute a ROF of 2 or be two seperate attacks?
Oh, double barreled, that would be why it costs more.

If it can also fire individually then RoF 2, if not then it's RoF 1x2.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Note that if you use the realistic stats for firearms in Cabaret Chicks on Ice, when it comes out, and the standard GURPS stats for crossbows and bows, firearms will actually be noticably inferior for PCs and their foes. Simply increase cost and ammo cost and they will be even less desireable.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:46 PM   #7
zylosan
 
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

"Note that if you use the realistic stats for firearms in Cabaret Chicks on Ice, when it comes out, and the standard GURPS stats for crossbows and bows, firearms will actually be noticably inferior for PCs and their foes. Simply increase cost and ammo cost and they will be even less desireable. "

This of course begs the question of when is the release data of CCOI? I was kind of under the impression that CCOI covered the low technology levels 0-3. Why does it have firearms at all?

Are the firearms within it going to be muzzle loading black powder type weapons with a very large load time, 40-60 seconds. The weapons listed are all relativly quick to reload compared to muzzle loaders.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zylosan View Post
This of course begs the question of when is the release data of CCOI?
Not soon enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zylosan View Post
I was kind of under the impression that CCOI covered the low technology levels 0-3. Why does it have firearms at all?
First, guns appear in TL3. Second, and more importantly, we're covering TL4 as well. This is a change from 3rd edition, where Low Tech was 0-3 and High Tech started at TL4.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:33 PM   #9
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Firearms in Iron Kingdoms are TL6, AFAICT. WarMachine has MG teams for example.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:56 PM   #10
zylosan
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: Do these weapons suck enough?

Yes Iron Kingdom does have machine guns but they are more along the line of the original maually powered gattling guns and are restricted to the most advanced nation in the RAW setting.

The other side of that is that in Iron Kingdom even a moderately low level character (5-9) can pretty easily shrug off a few hits from a rifle that does 2d8 damage. That is compeletely not the case in GURPS, so the relative power level of the weapons was reduced.

Plus see the part about not intending to replicate or follow the RL progression and development of firearms.

Thanks for the info on Low-Tech.

Another rules quesiton: Why do single shot weapons have a recoil stat listed? But more importantly why does it differ between weapons?
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