Gaining Magery: 1,001 (Arabian) Days

[scc]

Being a bit dramatic with the title, I know.

So one of the interesting things about how generic GURPS is is if you have an idea it serves well as a springboard/starting point (If you don't however...)

So using Magic as the basis for some non-gaming stuff got me thinking about the question of How does one become a Mage? Note that I'm assuming that potential is genetic/inherent, but developing it is up to you.

Well the obvious answer is that you went to a school, logged your required 1,000 hours, and poof, you've got Magery 0? That's boring. Worse it's also a bit nonsensical in that the rest of your education has to come to a stop for 6 months and that somehow listening to someone talk grants you the ability to cast spells?

So first change is that gaining Magery is more active: Specifically it's gained (Mostly) via meditation. Second change is that normally you only get to add 1 hour a day, it's an after school thing (because training in starts be university) so the whole process takes 1,000 days.

This gives this little table for hours gained:
Mediation, with special incense, per hour: 1 hour
Mediation, without special incense, per hour: 1 hour
Day, with no more then one hour of mediation: 0.01 hours
Hour in day with more then 1 hour of mediation: 0.0004 hours

Those last two are to simulate a continual growth thing. If you lack Magery 0 at least half of you hours (500) must be from mediation with incense, and all mediation must be under the instruction of someone with Magery. Now for the modifiers:

No Special/Proper diet: Mediation hours halved, non-mediation hours don't count.
Very High Mana: x4
High Mana: x2
Normal Mana: x0
Low Mana: x0.5
Very Low Mana: x0.25

Now for the most problematic and optional bit, the Witch Clothing Weight Table. This rule is designed to simulate/provide an explanation or excuse for why most of the time female spell casters are depicted as having the bodies and wardrobes of pornstars (And the fact that there are probably times where that last isn't an exaggeration isn't a good thing). Not all witches need to be female, and not all female spellcasters need to be witches, to simulate the pornstar body bit have them gain levels of Attractiveness as they gain levels of Magery.

On the table below cross-reference the weight of clothing the character is wearing to get a modifier to hours gained. Note that clothes should be read as natural/organic material in close proximity to the character, so a bear skin rug or leather count, but a Parker made of synthetic fiber doesn't. The logic here is that 'Witches', as opposed to 'Wizards', draw magical energy from their surroundings instead of generating it internally and that natural materials inhibit this. For a slightly better explanation this also applies to the rate energy is recovered from magical expediature, running around a battle field in dental floss makes more sense if it means you can cast spells at 5 times the rate.

Weight Multiplier
0 lbs., 3
1 lbs., 2
1.5 lbs., 1.5
2 lbs., 1
3 lbs., 2/3

For weights beyond 3 lbs. simply use the Size and Speed/Range Table, with weight in lbs. replacing distance in yards and multiplier being 1/size.

Question: Why can't I put tables in my posts?

[AlexanderHowl]

I would suggest have mages receive the option of buying one level of a 5 CP/level Talent for every level of Magery above 0, representing their magic shaping them into their idealized nature. For example, a witch with Magery 4 could also have Allure 4, which would give her quite an appealing appearancs. As for the clothing, it could be a magical gadget that gives the witch increased Appearance. For example, the equivalent of a string bikini could give Appearance (Transcendent; Breakable, -30%; Can Be Stolen, -10%; Magical, -10%) [10].

[whswhs]

"Training" by no means equates to sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture. Kata practice and sparring, for example, would count as "training" so long as you had a sensei keeping an eye on you.

Or you could treat Magery 0 as acquired through intensive training, with a risk of failure and lasting damage.

[ericthered]

The idea of Meditating your way into magery slowly over the course of 1,000 days is a great one. I can see the elven kids doing it each night.



But I really agree with whs. "Training" can mean all sorts of things, including meditation. Listening to an instructor is only effective if the thing being trained is either knowledge itself or is a small part of the training. And even when training for a "pure knowledge" field, training other than instruction is important, like working out problems, memorizing key terms, and practicing presenting the information.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by scc

How does one become a Mage?

I think the first step is to get the "sense change in mana levels" perk

which is basically Magery 0 with two limitations:

T22 Total Spell Incompetence -60%
T67 No Magic Item Sensitivity -20%

You can feel changes in mana level as you walk through them (something added in Magic absent in Basic) and have a Mage's aura but that's about it.

That's the one thing not removed by most modifiers except for Day/Night Aspected which would only let you sense mana changes at certain times of the day, Ceremonial which seems to remove passive recognition (just do active 10-second ceremony to sense items) and I guess Dance which might let you sense a mana change if you were conga-lining through it.

One thing I'm wondering is if One College mages are able to sense all kinds of mana... maybe they can only sense Aspected Mana for their college or normal (non-apected) mana?

If that's the case then I guess if "spell-aspected mana" existed too (if you can add One College to mana enhancer then why not One Spell?) then One College could sense all types in their college while "One Spell" magery could not sense mana aspected to other spells?

Originally Posted by scc

provide an explanation or excuse for why most of the time female spell casters are depicted as having the bodies and wardrobes of pornstars

No need to generalize: there's a lot of variety in bodies/clothing in that industry!

There's actually tools for this in the existing rules if you look to GURPS Thaumatology and apply the optional rules (making magery more expensive is GREAT so long as it doesn't have to compete with psi/super)

T28 "Rituals and Encumbrance" : use the "double encumbrance level as penalty to casting" rule (+80% to buy off!)

This would explain why they would wear minimal clothing: to avoid the penalty.

Mages can also take a quirk like "Dead Weight" to pre-occupy some of their Basic Lift with carrying their own frames, leaving even less room for heavy clothes.

Other useful things from PU6 is "Self-Imposed Limit" (won't carry a load) which makes a lot of sense if you also have "Fatigues Easily Under Load".

T51's approach to powerstones ("sheer mass matters") would also mean you'd want to spare all weight possible (bare lots of skin) for carrying items.

M8's "Magic Ingredients" rule is also valuable here to load mages' satchels down so they'll not only avoid armor, but even emphasize shorts/t-shirts over pants/sweaters, because every ounce counts!

Originally Posted by scc

to simulate the pornstar body bit have them gain levels of Attractiveness as they gain levels of Magery.

No need to give them PERMANENT attractiveness. You can explain cute witches with workarounds. For example, lots probably have a point in Alchemy and fool around with making Elixirs or even Charms with it.

Aside from Attractiveness (M216, not sure why under "magical abilities" category) there's Charisma (M218) too.

B41 also mentions "Alter Visage" costs 3/hour to maintain, and a lot of witches might just be doing that.

It suggests having GMs force players to pay points if you use the 40 energy needed to make it a permanent enchantment. In that case you should definitely get the Magical -10% discount since the beauty would cease working in a No Mana zone.

Possibly something relating to being able to be permanently removed by Remove Enchantment too, in case where it's easier to cast a spell on someone than mark up their face with a butterknife.

Originally Posted by scc

On the table below cross-reference the weight of clothing the character is wearing to get a modifier to hours gained.

It looks like the less clothing they are wearing the faster they learn.

Originally Posted by scc

clothes should be read as natural/organic material in close proximity to the character,
so a bear skin rug or leather count,
but a Parker made of synthetic fiber doesn't.

So basically "I can wear nothing but a a 30 pound synthetic fiber parka and I learn just as fast as being naked" ?

Originally Posted by scc

The logic here is that 'Witches', as opposed to 'Wizards', draw magical energy from their surroundings instead of generating it internally and that natural materials inhibit this

What exactly are 'surroundings' though, like why not from natural materials themselves?

[scc]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

I would suggest have mages receive the option of buying one level of a 5 CP/level Talent for every level of Magery above 0, representing their magic shaping them into their idealized nature. For example, a witch with Magery 4 could also have Allure 4, which would give her quite an appealing appearancs.

Possible, but probably not garish enough.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

As for the clothing, it could be a magical gadget that gives the witch increased Appearance. For example, the equivalent of a string bikini could give Appearance (Transcendent; Breakable, -30%; Can Be Stolen, -10%; Magical, -10%) [10].

Not really what I'm going for. Also as you can enchant tattoo's those would be a better option.

Originally Posted by whswhs

"Training" by no means equates to sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture. Kata practice and sparring, for example, would count as "training" so long as you had a sensei keeping an eye on you.

Originally Posted by ericthered

The idea of Meditating your way into magery slowly over the course of 1,000 days is a great one. I can see the elven kids doing it each night.



But I really agree with whs. "Training" can mean all sorts of things, including meditation. Listening to an instructor is only effective if the thing being trained is either knowledge itself or is a small part of the training. And even when training for a "pure knowledge" field, training other than instruction is important, like working out problems, memorizing key terms, and practicing presenting the information.

I'd already realized this, but thanks anyway.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Or you could treat Magery 0 as acquired through intensive training, with a risk of failure and lasting damage.

I'll have to double check the rules, but I believe that there's a one month limit on intensive training, and Magery 0 would take 3, if you assume that an Advantage that requires intensive training gets the double hours thing

Originally Posted by Plane

I think the first step is to get the "sense change in mana levels" perk

which is basically Magery 0 with two limitations:

T22 Total Spell Incompetence -60%
T67 No Magic Item Sensitivity -20%

You can feel changes in mana level as you walk through them (something added in Magic absent in Basic) and have a Mage's aura but that's about it.

That's the one thing not removed by most modifiers except for Day/Night Aspected which would only let you sense mana changes at certain times of the day, Ceremonial which seems to remove passive recognition (just do active 10-second ceremony to sense items) and I guess Dance which might let you sense a mana change if you were conga-lining through it.

One thing I'm wondering is if One College mages are able to sense all kinds of mana... maybe they can only sense Aspected Mana for their college or normal (non-apected) mana?

If that's the case then I guess if "spell-aspected mana" existed too (if you can add One College to mana enhancer then why not One Spell?) then One College could sense all types in their college while "One Spell" magery could not sense mana aspected to other spells?

Interesting, but way are you bringing most of this up? And if we assume that flawed teaching, as opposed to the limits of your gift, are responsible for Limitations on Magery, then it would be reasonable to assume that correcting such teaching means the process is longer then simply teaching you correctly in the first place.

Originally Posted by Plane

No need to generalize: there's a lot of variety in bodies/clothing in that industry!

There's actually tools for this in the existing rules if you look to GURPS Thaumatology and apply the optional rules (making magery more expensive is GREAT so long as it doesn't have to compete with psi/super)

T28 "Rituals and Encumbrance" : use the "double encumbrance level as penalty to casting" rule (+80% to buy off!)

This would explain why they would wear minimal clothing: to avoid the penalty.

Mages can also take a quirk like "Dead Weight" to pre-occupy some of their Basic Lift with carrying their own frames, leaving even less room for heavy clothes.

Other useful things from PU6 is "Self-Imposed Limit" (won't carry a load) which makes a lot of sense if you also have "Fatigues Easily Under Load".

T51's approach to powerstones ("sheer mass matters") would also mean you'd want to spare all weight possible (bare lots of skin) for carrying items.

M8's "Magic Ingredients" rule is also valuable here to load mages' satchels down so they'll not only avoid armor, but even emphasize shorts/t-shirts over pants/sweaters, because every ounce counts!

The things is this tropes is normally gender enforced, so none of these suggestions would really work.

Originally Posted by Plane

No need to give them PERMANENT attractiveness. You can explain cute witches with workarounds. For example, lots probably have a point in Alchemy and fool around with making Elixirs or even Charms with it.

Aside from Attractiveness (M216, not sure why under "magical abilities" category) there's Charisma (M218) too.

B41 also mentions "Alter Visage" costs 3/hour to maintain, and a lot of witches might just be doing that.

It suggests having GMs force players to pay points if you use the 40 energy needed to make it a permanent enchantment. In that case you should definitely get the Magical -10% discount since the beauty would cease working in a No Mana zone.

Possibly something relating to being able to be permanently removed by Remove Enchantment too, in case where it's easier to cast a spell on someone than mark up their face with a butterknife.

The problem is that this requires that an entire class of incredibly intelligent, well educated women are vain enough to engage in this behaviour, this is even more sexist.

Originally Posted by Plane

It looks like the less clothing they are wearing the faster they learn.

So basically "I can wear nothing but a a 30 pound synthetic fiber parka and I learn just as fast as being naked" ?

Yes and Yes.

Originally Posted by Plane

What exactly are 'surroundings' though, like why not from natural materials themselves?

The environment, the air, probably living things.

[DangerousThing]

I'm about to start a new campaign, and I think this time I'm going to use Qi (a new stat) for psionics/magic. I mention this because it might be a solution to attractive witches.

Qi replaces intelligence for using psionics. It is also possible to use Qi to determine attractiveness. I'm thinking of using the highest of HT or Qi to determine attractiveness. This way you can have an elderly wizard that is attractive to others, perhaps they feel his aura of power.

[Michael Cule]

I've thought about this for a possible game set at Dom Daniel, the legendary school-for-wizards-and-witches mentioned in THE SWORD IN THE STONE. (Yes, it exists in other legends than that.)

I started by assuming that Magery 0 is something the selected pupils already have: it's there due to genetics or destiny or something. Not everyone can become a wizard.

They are taught in their first years how to do Basic Magic: the spells-as-skills from the Basic Set and GURPS MAGIC. They will only learn a few spells and they won't be the most powerful ones but they will have them as the equivalent of 'cantrips' no matter how they choose to develop their gifts.

Then they are required to undergo a ritual to activate the first of the more advanced levels of magic. This I envision as something like the Mystery Cults of ARS MAGICA or initiation into a Theistic Cult in RUNEQUEST: you go on a guided journey to the Other Side, you take choices, you risk something. But at the end you end up being a Mage 1. Perhaps your abilities are limited in some way in which case you are guided to the path that best exploits/avoids your limitations.

But beyond the first level of Magery you choose your own type of magic: you are taught the style of magic (Ritual Path, Syntactic, Advanced spell-as-skill: even Threshold magic) that suits you. You eventually risk more to advance yourself as a mage: you have to design your own rituals if you want to be more than a Mage 1 and the higher you go the greater the risk.

This strikes me as a Cool Idea and I intend to start on it... Real Soon Now. Honest.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by scc

way are you bringing most of this up?
And if we assume that flawed teaching, as opposed to the limits of your gift, are responsible for Limitations on Magery, then it would be reasonable to assume that correcting such teaching means the process is longer then simply teaching you correctly in the first place.

I think rather than "I go from having no magery at all to full magery 0 [5]" (ie nothing at all until you've done 1000 hours of learning) you could represent learning magery in 1-point increments per 200 hours, the first one being the ability to feel changes in mana level.

Originally Posted by scc

The things is this tropes is normally gender enforced, so none of these suggestions would really work.

You could make it off-limits for female characters to buy the "No Magic Ingredients" perk for spells or the "No Encumbrance Penalties" enhancement for magery. The inability to buy certain traits is considered a 0-point Taboo feature so you're not really penalizing them, since they can just spend their points on other stuff.

Originally Posted by scc

The problem is that this requires that an entire class of incredibly intelligent, well educated women are vain enough to engage in this behaviour, this is even more sexist.

I don't think choosing to be attractive is necessarily vanity. You don't need to be excessively proud about it. In fact if LOTS of witches look this way, it would become decreasingly exceptional, and something you simply do to be "average for a witch" and avoid the "relative penalty" of an average appearance which would be subjectively "ugly for witch standards".

It would not require being Selfish (B153) to do this sort of thing, for example.

There are lots of genuinely good and non-vain applications of beauty that one could use, basically.

It's basically "visual charisma" (with a rough/implied base cost of 5/level per "Universal" reduced to 4/level for "-20% only applies to same/similar races and races who find my race attractive")

especially if you use the "Impressive" interpretation. Mechanically I'm not really sure what the difference would be between that and "Androgynous" except that "doesn't manifest as sexual magnetism"

I assume means that Androgynous gets a Sex Appeal bonus while Impressive doesn't, but might get some other benefit in compensation, like not getting harassed by Lecherous folk? (the benefit to being a tiger or aged royalty) ... SE18 gives it a bonus to INTIMIDATION (barbarians, take note!) too.

The non-androgynous sexual magnetisms (beautiful/handsome) are basically "Attractive 2" for 8 points (bonus to everyone: inverted ugly) and then the other 4 points are (instead of an extra +1 to everyone like Androgynes get) an extra +2 from attracteds...

"Very" is where it starts to get weird though because the prior-established "trade +1 for +2 for ~half the population" is applied, but then there's this weird "lose all bonuses and suffer -2 from same-sex people with a preexisting -4 in penalties toward you" drawback to it.

This problem isn't amplified any for Transcendant, they just get the usual +2 which basic Handsome/Beautiful gets compared to "Attractive 2".

These are things I'd just like to see broken down into an actual "basic attribute" which just has base 0 instead of base 10 (basically like how Reputation or Talent works)

Charisma gives a bonus to 4 skills in ADDITION to influence rolls (that's the 6 influence skills, and sometimes even other stuff like Law) which is like a Medium talent (10/level) where "anyone in a position to notice the Talent, if he would be impressed by such aptitude" seems to be a RATHER large group...

PU3p4's "applies only after demonstrating the Talent – normally by using the affected
skills." seems like a reasonable expectation of enjoying the Charisma bonus to reactions (you shouldn't just walk in a room and get it) meaning you'd at least need to use those skills (maybe not necessarily succeed in them?)

B313 lists "at all times for Charisma!" for Louis d’Antares which would be incredibly powerful. I think "Reaction Modifiers" for "Iconic Characters" assumes "from sapient beings" because "when dressed up" is the only condition listened for Fashion Sense (doubtful puppies will care) so there could be other 'unwritten assumptions' about these.

Reactions actually get baked into Talent too so maybe "appearance is physical talent" to compliment "charisma is mental talent" makes more sense?

Part of the difficulty in tabulating that is unlike charisma (which has a list of skill rolls it effects) appearance doesn't actually mention that, just the reaction modifiers. You actually need to be reading through skills to see where it applies:

B202 : bad appearance gives intimidation bonus (no penalty for good)
B212: bad appearance gives panhandling bonuses except horrific/monstrous, good appearance gives penalties
B219: Sex Appeal good appearance gives gets bonus = reaction, bad suffers DOUBLE reaction penalty

PU3p23 makes a distinction (in some cases suggestions traits as caps/prereqs for certain talents) but I'm not sure why. Charisma is also uniquely an Unusual Background for being able to buy the Enthrallment skills too, like how spell prereqs have UB baked into their first point for standard (non-ritual) magic.

[RyanW]

I always try to call scantily clad female fantasy characters what they are: publishers trying to sell to people who literally judge books by their covers.

By the same logic, to be a fighter you would need to be severely dehydrated, because that's how you get that sinewy look.