The necessity of thiefs

[Anders]

I know that having a thief in your party is a hallowed tradition, but is it really necessary? I'm seriously thinking about scrapping them, because it seems they do nothing that the Wizard and the Scout can't handle.

[tbone]

A thief might not be purely necessary (unless the GM packs in enough traps and locks to make one necessary).

But they're fun to play anyway. So there's that. : )

[Polydamas]

I've seen arguments that they are pretty useless in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, because there are spells which can do their schticks but better, unless the dungeon is so littered with traps and chances to sneak that the FP cost becomes an issue.

[Michael Thayne]

There's a lot of overlap between Scout and Thief—I guess I would think of a Thief as an "indoor/urban Scout". But this is not like early editions of The Other RPG where it was on some level assumed that the default party consisted of 1 fighter, 1 cleric, 1 thief, and 1 wizard.

[Anders]

Yeah, that other game has pretty much given up on thieves being anything but damage dealers. Been playing OotA and the thief has picked maybe two or three locks and detected one trap, but man does he shine in combat!

[Polydamas]

That was not how I remember it in 3e D&D. But Sneak Attack heavy Rogues, and films and games with Lithe Acrobatic Assassins, may give players the wrong expectations for the Dungeon Fantasy rogue.

Here is Peter Dell'Orto's take on the class https://dungeonfantastic.blogspot.co...-df-thief.html

[Rasputin]

DFRPG thieves don’t do much in combat, and there should have been a skill talent in the boxed set for them, since they have to spread points over many skills. The wizard can usurp the thief role after getting a few points. If you play one, play up the role playing and exploration, because you’ll do nothing in combat.

I ditched the Thief Profession and just let Scouts and Swashbucklers pick up Lockpicking and Traps as 'in Profession' skills and call it a day (and opened up some of the Thief Advantages to them 'in Profession' if they weren't already available - IE if they really want to dungeon parkour, Perfect Balance and Flexibility are there, as well as HMD for those wanting to be more 'theify').

No one was wanting to play a Thief and they are completely superfluous in DFRPG.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Anders

I know that having a thief in your party is a hallowed tradition, but is it really necessary?

No.

The "old school" style DF thief (a skilled criminal, but poor combatant) is a bit of a niche PC. Can be fun in the right hands or in the right situation but not actually well suited to the kind of delving folks usually play these days.

A more fighty D&D 3e+ rogue type is a swashbuckler-thief or maybe a scout-thief.

But really, the vital roles in DF are tank, healer, and wizzo. The conditions and traditions back in older DnD that made thieves sorta-kinda necessary are not nearly as influential these days.

I'll add that one of the best solo characters is any other template with a thief lens to add stealth and practical looting skills.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by martinl

A more fighty D&D 3e+ rogue type is a swashbuckler-thief or maybe a scout-thief.

Most of the "thieves" in fantasy novels or films probably fall into those categories too, modeled either on Robin Hood (in which case they're scouts) or "pirates" (in which case they're Swashbucklers). I suppose some of them are con men (who'd be Bards) too, though those aren't great fits for dungeon delving either. Straight up sneak thieves are rare - Bilbo is a bit of an outlier, and even he does nearly as many scout-y or con-artist-y type things as actual sneak thieving.