Reality Check: Sniper Shots and Speed/Range Table

[safisher]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

This matches my experience as well. Shooting with a high (or worse variable) cross-wind sucks even if you have wind flags. At that range it's even quite possible for the wind to be blowing in different directions and different speeds along the bullet's trajectory.

Precisely. With HT and GF we wanted to make shooting as, well . . . finessed as kicking, punching, and slicing was in MA. We expanded skills, perks, and techniques both horizontally and vertically, so that being a sniper could be as distinctive in a group of other modern day shooters as being a fencer would be in a group composed of knights, monks, and rangers. That's only fair for the gunmen.

Also, remember that HT says "an extra +5 is the maximum – but in practice this bonus can’t exceed the lower of the bonus from targeting systems (scopes, sights, etc.) and the weapon’s basic Accuracy." And, as was pointed out: "The GM may penalize these rolls in adverse conditions (wind, rain, dust, bad terrain, etc.) or give bonuses under ideal circumstances (dead calm, familiar location, etc.)."

There is no reason the +10 TDM for ideal range firing can't extend to very long distance shots. Reminder: .50 caliber riflemen do sub 2-inch groups at 1,000 yards, folks. Check FCSA.

And where would the fun be if the dust, wind, Coriolis effect, and flight time could not challenge the "dope" the sniper must figure and "hold" for a 2.9 mile shot? After crawling through raw sewage, cutting off leeches with a giant survival knife, cracking a half dozen necks, and ignoring the mosquito bites for hours on end, that head shot against a tango who's hiding behind the sniper's high school sweetheart is going to be a triumphant moment -- and it should be difficult or it will be anticlimactic for the player.

It's a heroic action game, guys. Be heroic. We made it so you would have FUN.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

How would these tend to affect the difficulty of the shot? I ask in the spirit of enquiry, since my knowledge of firearms is almost completely academic (I shot a .22 once. I'm a bad, bad farmboy. :-) ).
High-Tech seems to assume that having the spotter doing the calculating is just as easy as doing it yourself, but is that really the case?

The main benefits from a spotter (besides the increased situational awareness) was mostly that they have an easier time in spotting where the shot went then doing it yourself. Thus should really give a bonus to precision aiming or something similar.

For first shot they are less of a help, but seemed to help a bit for me in determining range and other conditions like wind because of a second set of eyes.

(Note: this is from my memory 20+ years back so no idea if new gadgetry affects this, as I only do hobby shooting and hunting now)

[Whitestreak]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

How would these tend to affect the difficulty of the shot? I ask in the spirit of enquiry, since my knowledge of firearms is almost completely academic (I shot a .22 once. I'm a bad, bad farmboy. :-) ).
High-Tech seems to assume that having the spotter doing the calculating is just as easy as doing it yourself, but is that really the case?

Spotters can help figure the crosswinds. They also tend to be able to locate the actual strike, especially if the round misses by more than a couple of feet. Gaming, a competent spotter could add a +1 to a called shot, with plenty of prep time.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

What are "passage whirls"?

In the right weather conditions, the spiralling passage of the bullet will create, in essence, a contrail. I've experienced it once, at high altitude, and it can almost be considered like a tracer - the whirl shows you the exact path of the bullet.

[Jasonft]

If I can diverge into a sidebar issue here? I notice almost all of these scenarios presented - including the ones that really happened in battle - assume a stationary and presumably unaware target.

I understand that shots that miss at this range are impacting dozens or hundreds of yards away and thus it would be very easy for the target not to notice. But assuming a 'heroic' sniper is shooting at a 'heroic' target what are the Perception modifiers to A) Notice you are being shot at and B) Identify the location from which the sniper is shooting?

"A)" would doubtless need modifiers for having allies in the area (someone needs to see the missed shot hit something) and "B)" would realistically only get you a general direction/distance, but once your targets start to move even a heroic sniper would find kills nigh impossible at that range.

So just how hideous should the modifiers be? Normal perception check only, this being GURPS and all...

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Whitestreak

In the right weather conditions, the spiralling passage of the bullet will create, in essence, a contrail. I've experienced it once, at high altitude, and it can almost be considered like a tracer - the whirl shows you the exact path of the bullet.

I don't know if it's the same thing, but you can see the passage of an M-16 round through the air if you're standing behind the shooter. Not the round, but the disruption of the air. I used to do this as a range coach all the time. Shooter would take a shot, and I'd tell him if he was high, low, right, or left before the target came back up with a shot spotter in it. Just have to know to look for it.

[Whitestreak]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

I don't know if it's the same thing, but you can see the passage of an M-16 round through the air if you're standing behind the shooter. Not the round, but the disruption of the air. I used to do this as a range coach all the time. Shooter would take a shot, and I'd tell him if he was high, low, right, or left before the target came back up with a shot spotter in it. Just have to know to look for it.

Pretty much the same thing.

At higher altitudes, though, you can see it from different angles - which is why I mentioned it's like a tracer. The passage can be white, just like a contrail.

I understand that the Canadian sniper mentioned the multiple croswind effects that were visible.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Jasonft

If I can diverge into a sidebar issue here? I notice almost all of these scenarios presented - including the ones that really happened in battle - assume a stationary and presumably unaware target.

The target was moving.

Which is pretty much the norm in battle, you'll note. And certainly after you fire the first shot, there's a chance that he'll notice something. After all, if you can see the shot impact from almost two miles away, he might notice when it hits a couple of feet away from him.

In all of the three shots, I'd give a Dodge* roll for the target. The bullet has a flight of 3-4 seconds (depending on how hot his loads were) and there's a good chance that the target has moved away by then, even if he isn't aware of being shot at.

*Yes, I know that unaware targets do not normally get Dodge rolls. However, in the special case that the flight time exceeds a second, let alone three seconds, I would nevertheless use the same mechanics. I might give a -2 for being unaware, same as flank attacks or run-around attacks.

[Jasonft]

A moving target at that range? Eep. I didn't know that.

[Whitestreak]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The target was moving.

Which is pretty much the norm in battle, you'll note. And certainly after you fire the first shot, there's a chance that he'll notice something. After all, if you can see the shot impact from almost two miles away, he might notice when it hits a couple of feet away from him.

In all of the three shots, I'd give a Dodge* roll for the target. The bullet has a flight of 3-4 seconds (depending on how hot his loads were) and there's a good chance that the target has moved away by then, even if he isn't aware of being shot at.

*Yes, I know that unaware targets do not normally get Dodge rolls. However, in the special case that the flight time exceeds a second, let alone three seconds, I would nevertheless use the same mechanics. I might give a -2 for being unaware, same as flank attacks or run-around attacks.

However, the target in this case was not dodging.

He was moving along a trail, at what seemed to be a normal walking pace.

Not on a battlefield - according to what I've heard, the Taliban seemed unaware that any non-friendlies were in the area.

If the target is moving at a steady rate, along a predictable path, I doubt if Dodge applies. The motion and distance penalties are enough in this case.