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12-21-2018, 10:15 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
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Difference question about weapons.
What is the difference between an autocannon and a heavy autocannon? I mean what are some real world examples of either weapon. I'm just unclear on the intent behind their descriptions.
Is the regular autocannon something like what you see on an Apache, and the heavy something like what you see on a jet fighter? Thanks for any reply. |
12-21-2018, 11:08 AM | #2 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Pequod University
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
You might find an answer in the "State of the Art" articles that appeared in ADQ. They were written as a technical treatise that served to reconcile the "fluff" and "crunch" that constituted the major components (chassis,power plant, armor, and especially weapons) that comprised Car Wars vehicle designs.
Last edited by MazeMonster; 12-21-2018 at 11:27 AM. |
12-21-2018, 12:21 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
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12-21-2018, 04:48 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
Dear Blue Ghost,
The Autocannon would be a single-barrel automatic cannon at least 20mm in caliber. The Heavy Autocannon was renamed the Rapid-Fire Tank Gun. It would have a caliber greater than the Autocannon. The Gatling Cannon would be a multi-barrel electric rotary automatic cannon at least 20mm in caliber. Comparing Car Wars weapons with real-world weapons becomes inaccurate as one discusses higher-powered, military-type weaponry. One reason Interstate '76 was cool was the game had four types of autocannon: 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, and Hades. I do not know if their damage values were approximate to real-world effects, but they were interesting to use on the battlefield. The Car Wars game engine is based on a one-second, multi-round burst from a 7.62mm Medium Machine-Gun causing 1d6 of damage. This benchmark worked well when the game was created, but it makes the game a little strange when actual military weapons are added. Most melee weapons and many infantry weapons in Car Wars are considered to inflict half to no damage to vehicular components. BattleTech has a combat engine similar to Car Wars. Non-BattleMech weapons are considered to inflict little to no damage to BattleMech components. GURPS has a more in-depth combat engine to accommodate military weapons, although with military weapons in real life often one shot often results in the target being destroyed. In game terms, there is no need to roll for damage. The weapons in Aeroduel and Car Wars Tanks are very useful for scenarios but for arena combat with normal, non-military vehicles they are not as useful because they make games end quickly.
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Michael P. Owen Seattle Washington Autoduel Team https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html Twitter: Car Combat Central https://twitter.com/carcombat |
12-21-2018, 08:54 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
That's interesting. I guess I haven't read the rules in ages, because I could have sworn that the standard MG was either a 50 or 30 cal weapon. Interesting.
Robot, you ninny.... |
12-22-2018, 09:51 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
Blue Ghost,
You memory is correct. The MG was called a 0.50-caliber machine-gun in UA 2035. With the addition of the HMG from Car Wars Tanks and LMG from UACFH to the Car Wars system, considering the MG as 0.30-caliber works better for roleplaying and campaign purposes. Based on the three State of the Art articles in ADQ, and my library of military books, a rough set of comparison statistics are listed below. LMG: 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber MG: 7.62mm / 0.30-caliber HMG: 12.7mm / 0.50-caliber Infantry VMG: 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber VMG: 7.62mm / 0.30-caliber HVMG: 12.7mm / 0.50-caliber AC: 20mm Gatling Cannon: 20mm The Assault Rifle would probably be considered 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber. In a campaign, I would permit ammunition from one type of weapon to be loaded into another type of weapon if the two weapons had the same caliber. The referee would need to create some conversion notes for how many rounds are equivalent between weapons. This idea increases complexity but in a campaign, especially a Chassis and Crossbow or a post-apocalyptic campaign, salvaging ammo is critical. Regarding your original post, the automatic weapon on the AH-64 Apache is a 30mm Chain Gun with a single barrel. In Car Wars, the weapon would probably be a more powerful weapon than the AC. During the first season of the TV series Airwolf, the helicopter was supposed to be armed with multiple Chain Guns. The term "Chain Gun" is a trademarked name and gun design. Because of intellectual property complaints by Hughes, the gun's manufacturer at the time, in the second and third seasons of Airwolf, the term "Chain Gun" was no longer used. As mentioned on this forum and in many entries of ADQ&A and Backfire in ADQ, comparing Car Wars weaponry to real-world weaponry is more hazardous than driving through Midville on a Saturday night while only using Standard Tires. :o)
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Michael P. Owen Seattle Washington Autoduel Team https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html Twitter: Car Combat Central https://twitter.com/carcombat |
12-22-2018, 01:36 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
And herein lies the problem with "CW v. reality": _CW_ weapons are *badly* underpowered (they have to be, otherwise games would be "one shot, one kill"). Add to that certain inconsistencies in weapon classes (the AC, for ex.: It's a Burst-Effect weapon, but its special ammo is all Area-Effect types -- HD ammo instead of HEAT, for ex.), and trying to figure out what equates to what is a pain.
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"Dale *who*?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End. |
12-22-2018, 01:57 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
That's interesting, because I thought the Apache's chain gun had three barrels. I must be thinking of something else.
Thanks for the run down on real-world equivalents. It helps a lot. Thanks again! |
12-27-2018, 12:10 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
The AH-1 Cobra helicopter had multiple options for the weapons mounted in its front chin turret. One weapon was a three-barrel, 20mm electric automatic cannon.
The Autocannon inflicts 3d6 per shot. The Heavy Autocannon/Rapid-Fire Tank Gun inflicts 6d6 per shot. GURPS has fun effects for different ammunition types such as HEAT and HESH. The rules are more detailed than those in Car Wars but they do offer interesting tactics.
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Michael P. Owen Seattle Washington Autoduel Team https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html Twitter: Car Combat Central https://twitter.com/carcombat |
12-27-2018, 03:55 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
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Re: Difference question about weapons.
Yeah, I was thinking of the Cobra and got it confused with the Apache. Thanks for the clarification. Based on previous posts the Car Wars' autocannon sounds like your standard single barrel repeating weapon.
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