01-30-2014, 10:54 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
This is intended as a discussion, as I'm really not sure of the answer. Basically, based on what we know now about how dangerous concussive force actually is (from experiences with IEDs in Afghanistan and Iraq), does anyone think that GURPS treats cr ex damage in a manner that is significantly less damaging than it is in real life?
There are plenty of stories of men killed without a mark on them, struck down from concussive force alone (as far back as WW2 and likely before that). There are also the long-term effects of concussions, but GURPS probably doesn't need to worry about those for RPG purposes. The reason I'm thinking that GURPS might have it right as it stands is that you probably only get the really dangerous effects from really big explosions. The concussion caused by grenades really isn't the killer--the shrapnel is the main wounding element. But a 20 lb ANFO IED will inflict 6dx6 damage. This does 126 concussion damage at 0 yards, 40 damage at 1 yard, 21 damage at 2 yards, and only 14 damage at 3 yards. Clearly, this does not get you to the observed effectiveness of explosions of the two most recent wars. What do you all think? Bottom line: explosions have always seemed a bit weak in GURPS when you actually do the math, and I'm wondering if this is realistic or actually too tame.
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-apoc527 My Campaigns Currently Playing: GURPS Banestorm: The Symmetry of Darkness Inactive: Star*Drive: 2525-Hunting for Fun and Profit My THS Campaign-In the Shadows of Venus Yrth--The Legend Begins The XCOM Apocalypse Last edited by apoc527; 01-30-2014 at 11:05 AM. |
01-30-2014, 10:56 AM | #2 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
Remember that there are 3 levels of Explosive, and that high-yield explosives get the higher level.
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01-30-2014, 11:03 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
?? Are you referring to the Explosive modifier in the powers section of Basic? Because that explicitly doesn't apply to explosions created by means other than powers. Basic 414 makes this clear: "This listed damage only applies 'as is' to the target struck. For everything else caught in the blast, roll this damage but divide it by (3 x distance in yards from center of the blast), rounding down. Use torso armor to determine DR against explosion damage." A later rule modifies the DR to the average of torso DR and the lowest DR of any other location (under wide area injury...I think that's also in Basic, but I can't recall, it might also be a clarification in HT or something).
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-apoc527 My Campaigns Currently Playing: GURPS Banestorm: The Symmetry of Darkness Inactive: Star*Drive: 2525-Hunting for Fun and Profit My THS Campaign-In the Shadows of Venus Yrth--The Legend Begins The XCOM Apocalypse |
01-30-2014, 11:03 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
At 0 yards you take full damage.
At 1 yard you don't, you take 1/3 of the base damage. So, the guy who was at 1y from the blast and took 40 damage died but because of the blast he was thrown 4-5 yards and when they find his parts, he'll be at 5-6 yards from the blast.
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01-30-2014, 11:04 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
Quote:
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-apoc527 My Campaigns Currently Playing: GURPS Banestorm: The Symmetry of Darkness Inactive: Star*Drive: 2525-Hunting for Fun and Profit My THS Campaign-In the Shadows of Venus Yrth--The Legend Begins The XCOM Apocalypse |
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01-30-2014, 11:13 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
Quote:
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01-30-2014, 11:15 AM | #7 |
Join Date: May 2009
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
I find the problem a lot of people have with explosions is that they are not using big enough bombs, 100lb is not very large as far as bombs go, but how many GMs expose players to something like that?
The divide by three times the radius rule meshes with the r^-2 law reasonably well I certainly can't imagine an easier way of working it out.
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Maxwell Kensington "Snotkins" Von Smacksalot III |
01-30-2014, 11:51 AM | #8 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
Concussion isn't ideal for killing people. Fragments are more effective. That said, note a few things about real-world IEDs, converted to GURPS-speak:
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
01-30-2014, 11:58 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
Excellent, that was supremely helpful, Kromm. THanks! Basically affirms my belief that I wasn't using enough boom.
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-apoc527 My Campaigns Currently Playing: GURPS Banestorm: The Symmetry of Darkness Inactive: Star*Drive: 2525-Hunting for Fun and Profit My THS Campaign-In the Shadows of Venus Yrth--The Legend Begins The XCOM Apocalypse |
01-30-2014, 12:11 PM | #10 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Explosive concussion damage: is GURPS not lethal enough?
I agree that the usual error made in games is assuming that such devices are small. There are examples that amount to oversized hand grenades, designed to be worn or look like a small parcel, but far more are the size of rubbish bins or cars. A 40-lb. shell or a 50-lb. ANFO charge wouldn't stand out at all; stats put average explosive weight at around 50 lbs., and the range of typical devices found every day is 40-110 lbs. Devices in the 200-lb. to 500-lb. range start to be noteworthy, and once you're packing vehicles, the numbers really balloon: the 1983 Beirut blast was ~2,000 lbs., while the 1996 Manchester bombing was ~3,000 lbs.
The problem, of course, is that you can't use these against PCs you want to keep around. Best to have them discover and disarm such devices, or show up after the explosion, looking to investigate. The PCs in my campaign once detonated a huge IED. I believe it was four tonnes of ANFO.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
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