So, ancient armor questions...

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I'm not sure you need segmented plate for the knees and elbows. The inside of the joint is always going to be uncovered by rigid protection, and for the outside, ordinary athletic protection typically uses a single plate.

The best plate armour uses intricate segmented plate for the joints. The rest use mail. Here is one of Henry VIII's harnesses. It is beautiful work.
http://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-...475/424512.jpg
http://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-...475/424510.jpg

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The best plate armour uses intricate segmented plate for the joints. The rest use mail. Here is one of Henry VIII's harnesses. It is beautiful work.
http://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-...475/424512.jpg
http://images2.bridgemanart.com/cgi-...475/424510.jpg

That certainly looks covered inside the joint to me.

The "simpler" version leaving the inside of the joint uncovered would be 50% coverage - From the Front on the knee, I guess from the Left/Right on the elbows for simplicity.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Bruno

That certainly looks covered inside the joint to me.

The "simpler" version leaving the inside of the joint uncovered would be 50% coverage - From the Front on the knee, I guess from the Left/Right on the elbows for simplicity.

No, it is a lot harder to target those spots than 50% coverage implies. The "armour gaps" rule is the best option for most plate armour. Henry's armour doesn't have gaps in those areas so that option does not apply. But the DR would be lower since the plate here is thinner.

[Ulzgoroth]

That's some beautiful armor.

I imagine that sort of joint-fitting segmented plate should be necessarily costly. Seemingly beyond the level of armor quality covered in Low Tech, since extra penalties to target gaps wouldn't be relevant if the gap simply doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by DanHoward

No, it is a lot harder to target those spots than 50% coverage implies. The "armour gaps" rule is the best option for most plate armour. Henry's armour doesn't have gaps in those areas so that option does not apply. But the DR would be lower since the plate here is thinner.

...and now, of course, I have to wonder why the armor gaps rules make no mention of the possibility of those gaps simply not existing. Low Tech seems to strongly imply that the armor in those photos could not exist.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

That's some beautiful armor.

I imagine that sort of joint-fitting segmented plate should be necessarily costly. Seemingly beyond the level of armor quality covered in Low Tech, since extra penalties to target gaps wouldn't be relevant if the gap simply doesn't exist.

...and now, of course, I have to wonder why the armor gaps rules make no mention of the possibility of those gaps simply not existing. Low Tech seems to strongly imply that the armor in those photos could not exist.

I wouldn't take any rule in a GURPS tech book as claiming to cover 100% of the real world. But armour with segmented joints like that was very rare and very late and might not provide any better protection than the traditional DR 3-4 maille. So its a 99% solution.

I did propose an optional rule for allowing segmented plate joints during the playtest, but it didn't make into the final cut. Its already a very full book!

[DanHoward]

I would just rule that Henry VIII's armour is classed as "masterfully tailored" with the increased cost and reduced weight implications that that entails. Then I'd rule that masterfully tailored armour doesn't have gaps that can normally be exploited.

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The best plate armour uses intricate segmented plate for the joints. The rest use mail.

So, if you were designing armor for a game, would you be inclined to use some DR level worth of plate on head, chest, upper and lower arms, thighs and shins, and mail everywhere else (or segmented plate for the very best armor)?

And if your rigid pieces are Heavy Scale, would you use light scale in the gaps?

[DanHoward]

I wouldn't bother getting so specific unless the game centred around an armoured duel. For most games I'd just build a suit from the pieces in instant armour, add up the total cost and weight, and leave it at that.

[DemiBenson]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I did propose an optional rule for allowing segmented plate joints during the playtest, but it didn't make into the final cut. Its already a very full book!

So can you explain your proposed rule here?

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by DemiBenson

So can you explain your proposed rule here?

Today I suggest one of the two following rules:

1) An arming doublet covers the Armpit, Inside Elbow, and Groin gaps with Light Mail.

At late TL 4, a Plate defence for the whole arm and leg can be fitted with intricate segmented plates protecting the inside of the joints. This protects certain Armour Gaps with Light Segmented Plate with the same metal quality as the rest of the armour regardless of whether an arming doublet is worn. Arm armour protects the Armpit and Elbow, leg armour protects the Back of the Knee. +1 CF, +0 lbs; such leg armour gives -2 to Riding skill.

2) "At TL4, plate armor made use of a specialized garment called an arming doublet, which incorporated cords called arming points (twine or leather lacing) to attach small bits of plate and mail." (Low Tech p. 101) These protect the Armpit and Inside Elbow (for complete arm armour) or Back of Knee and Groin (for complete leg armour). If the armour is Cheap, the gaps are protected by DR 0 cloth; if the armour is Good, the gaps get the equivalent of Light Maille; if the armour is Fine, the gaps are protected by the equivalent of Fine Maille. In late TL 4 Europe, some especially expensive armour uses an intricate system of lames to protect the inside of the joints; treat this as a free feature of Fine armour which gives the armour -1 HT but protects the gaps whether or not an arming doublet is worn. Leg armour with this feature gives -2 to Riding skill.

Again, keep in mind that this armour is very late and very rare so we don't know how well it worked. I have never seen the thickness of the lames on a surviving example measured.