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Old 10-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #11
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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If elastic modulus is the same as young's modulus, tripling yield strength and also tripling young's modulus means you can bend it just as much as you would be able to bend normal wood.
I actually multiplied tensile by 9 (3^2) rather than 3. I tried multiplying both by 3 and it made the material basically worse, not better. *shrug* I'm mostly just plugging things in and seeing what pops out.

Experimenting with it, with the numbers I have it's just as bendy, but it's much more structurally sound - so it takes much less material to produce similar amounts of energy storage... which means there's less energy lost to accelerating the arms and more energy available for dumping into the projectile, AND you have a lighter bow.

You can get it down to about half the weight of the original and you get a performance increase.

There are definite benifits to the two PSI numbers being bigger, as long as the relationship between them stays "good".



---

I am having a DEVIL of a time finding numbers for leather or rawhide - I'd like to do cattle, goat, and kangaroo (order of worst to best) but all the measurements I can find are based on N/mm - which is in the wrong dimension. Everyone's interested in treating leather on an area basis, not a volume basis :P
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:40 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

Assuming that I don't usually play around with fancy worksheets, how much manual labour is involved in adding new materials to the list?

That is, would I have to change a bunch of stuff in the bow design and arrow design worksheets to get the new materials to be included and play nice?

Now I really want to play around with fantastic materials. ;)
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Last edited by Icelander; 10-13-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

Those numbers are weird; the energy storage in a volume of material stretched to its elastic limits scales as (yield strength ^ 2) / (2 * young's modulus), so x3 on both should result in requiring 1/3 as much elastic material (though you'll want to change the shape of your bow).

Last edited by Anthony; 10-13-2012 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

Doug, how much work would it be to make the rounding from the average damage to the damage dice obey normal GURPS rules, i.e. HT p. 166? By that I mean exchanging the 0d+1s and so forths for more standard 1d-4s or similar, as well as incorporating the +1d-1 steps in the progression.

That is, an average damage of 6 would translate into 2d-1. I guess there's no harm in retaining 1d+3 as a step on the progression, even though HT doesn't, but more granularity is always good.

Or is it perhaps impractical to have the program do the rounding in any other way than the current one? Looking at the equation you have in place, it would certainly require something much more complex and 'if-theny' to accomplish. Is it just impossible? Or at least so much work it's not worth it and if I want the dice to better reflect the average damage, I ought to enter it mantually?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:28 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Doug, how much work would it be to make the rounding from the average damage to the damage dice obey normal GURPS rules, i.e. HT p. 166? By that I mean exchanging the 0d+1s and so forths for more standard 1d-4s or similar, as well as incorporating the +1d-1 steps in the progression.

That is, an average damage of 6 would translate into 2d-1. I guess there's no harm in retaining 1d+3 as a step on the progression, even though HT doesn't, but more granularity is always good.

Or is it perhaps impractical to have the program do the rounding in any other way than the current one? Looking at the equation you have in place, it would certainly require something much more complex and 'if-theny' to accomplish. Is it just impossible? Or at least so much work it's not worth it and if I want the dice to better reflect the average damage, I ought to enter it mantually?
The simplest (albeit probably least elegant) solution I can think of for that is to create a table of "common average damages", the dice associated with them, and then use a VLOOKUP. So if the spreadsheet determines the average damage for a bow to be 6, it looks up "6" on the table, and sees "Okay, this should be 2d-1." You might have to make the table in half-point increments, but even with cinematic bows you probably won't have to go much further than 4d (average damage 14). Then just hide whatever columns the table is in so that you don't muck up the visual presentation.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

It wouldn't be that bad, and yes, I'd need a Vlookup, I think. 2d-2, 2d-1 (for example) would blend in with the standard 1d, 1d+1, 1d+2, and if you want, 1d+3

1d: 3.5
1d+1: 4.5
2d-2: 5.0
1d+2: 5.5
2d-1: 6
1d+3: 6.5
2d: 7

You'd almost want a 2d-3 step at 4.0 to keep half-point increments.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
It wouldn't be that bad, and yes, I'd need a Vlookup, I think. 2d-2, 2d-1 (for example) would blend in with the standard 1d, 1d+1, 1d+2, and if you want, 1d+3

1d: 3.5
1d+1: 4.5
2d-2: 5.0
1d+2: 5.5
2d-1: 6
1d+3: 6.5
2d: 7

You'd almost want a 2d-3 step at 4.0 to keep half-point increments.
Well, GURPS makes an extra damage dice an unambigious 'good' in a few cases (Weapon Master, primarily), so I wouldn't want to allow one 'ahead of time'. Not unless the rules on HT p. 166 said it was legit to round up to the next +1d-1.

But it would be great if the damage dice reflected the average damage. Especially with low draw bows that come out to less than 1d in the current system, because GURPS does not approve of damage dice being listed as 0d+adds.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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They do for all but less than 1d. The formula takes points of damage, divided by 3.5, and then drops fractions on the remainder.
It doesn't give the same result as HT p. 166, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
What you're looking for is a lookup table for damages less than 1d. As is, the only difference is going to 1d+3 instead of 2d-1 at 6.5 points rather than 6 points.
That is, however, a nasty-bad difference, resulting in PCs with hard-earned high ST and Weapon Master not deriving the full benefit therefrom. ;)

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For damage values greater than 1d, try this formula instead:

=IF(ABS(TRUNC(MOD(G14,7))-7)>2,TRUNC(G14/3.5)&"d+"&TRUNC(MOD(G14,3.5)),2*TRUNC(G14/7)+2&"d"&TRUNC(MOD(G14,7))-7)

Replace "G14" with whatever cell holds the points of damage you're trying to convert.

This formula chooses between the way I usually do it (Nd+M) where M is 1, 2, or 3, and what should be (N+1)d-P, where P is 1 or 2.
To be clear, if I drop that monstrous-looking formula up there in place of what's currently occupying I51 and I52, will the spreadsheet still work normally or might I break something?

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I think there's another formula here that might be fun, using MROUND(X, 0.5) and a few other things; I'll get back to you.
Looking forward to it.
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Last edited by Icelander; 10-14-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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It doesn't give the same result as HT p. 166, though.
That wasn't really my concern, honestly. If you want to convert using that formula, you can go ahead and do it manually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
That is, however, a nasty-bad difference, resulting in PCs with hard-earned high ST and Weapon Master not deriving the full benefit therefrom. ;)
That's a valid point. The original points-to-dice formula was for guns, and getting bonus penetration for weapon master didn't apply, so I figured it didn't matter for that application.

Why don't you hold off, though, with the monstrosity. I think there's got to be a better way, that mimics the HT formula. I even think I know what it might be.
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/33 Bow Worksheet: Still working?

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Why don't you hold off, though, with the monstrosity. I think there's got to be a better way, that mimics the HT formula. I even think I know what it might be.
Yay!
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