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Old 06-13-2019, 09:14 AM   #11
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Powers: Totems and Nature Spirits

Quote:
Originally Posted by safisher View Post
I like this book. The Vancian style magic gets all the love, but for most of the world and history, animism is the magic they know. Between this book and the Assisting Spirits section of Thaumatology, you have a really good system for representing a lot of magic in more "primitive" settings.
My current fantasy campaign uses animistic magic as one of its main fantasy elements, though it started long before this book came out, and doesn't use its specific version. Actually, what I primarily use is Path and Book Magic, which fits a setting where magic almost all involves the slow process of negotiating with a being with agency.
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Old 01-06-2020, 09:42 PM   #12
jutis
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Powers: Totems and Nature Spirits

Hi

My first post here on the forum. I just read through the book and cannot figure out some things. Basically I think it’s good a little short on the examples as noted by others. I also read the review at Mailanka’s Musings and thought it to the point. https://mailanka.blogspot.com/2019/0...ature.html?m=1

What I don’t get is this. I’m probably wrong (happens a lot these days) but then somebody brighter than me can probably enlighten me

Firstly when you design an Alternate Form my impression was that it changes the racial template to another one. The Partial Manifestations don’t do this. They actually add on to the racial template like a Lens. Though it is explained in the book as an variant to Alternate Form it still seems very different.
With that in mind I’d like to know if I have, say one Totem with Partial Manifestation (Bear, 135 pts) and my racial template is 100 pts, is the Bear Manifestation really a second form or just an add to my racial template making it 235 pts?
- If it’s an add why do I get the 10% discount on the spirit pool? Since then it’s not an Alternate Form at all it’s just me getting 135 more points.
- If it’s not an add but in fact an Alternate Form then I still should not get the 10% discount to the spirit pool since the Bear Alternate form is the most expensive one. Instead my racial template should be 10% cheaper (90 pts)

This gets even worse when looking at the Lion Partial Manifestation which saves me 34 points 10% of 341) instead of 10 (10% of 100)

Looking at a full manifestation I find this passage on page 5
“For full manifestations (only), add your racial template cost to your Spirit Pool when figuring the maximum point cost of the form, because your racial template is swapped out”
This is more of the same as above. If the Full Manifestation of a Bear costs 61 pts and I have a racial template that costs 100 then I should only pay 12 pts for the bear manifestation. But what if my racial template is only 50 pts or if I have a very expensive Full Manifestation? Again the point reduction should according to the rules for Alternate Form go to my racial template not the Spirit Pool.

Then I just have to ask about the example in the book (one of the few)
On page 5 again
“Example: Shadowspeaker has three manifestations . He lists them on his character sheet as “Totem-Bearer (Horse 2; Raven) [36] .” He writes the points spent on his Spirit Pool separately, as “Spirit Pool (90 points) [81]” (90 points x 0 .9 = 81)”
Where does all this come from?
Horse Partial Manifestation costs 135 pts. Horse Full Manifestation costs 105 pts and Raven is listed as Partial 35 pts or Full?? (maybe 1 point derived from Falcon)
Where does 90 pts come from, us that the not printed racial template of Shadowspeaker?

Or am I just really confused?
Can you clear these things up I will be a happy man :)
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:45 AM   #13
Refplace
 
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: [New Release] GURPS Powers: Totems and Nature Spirits

Hello, thanks for buying my book!
The answer to your first question is explained in the Under the Hood box on page 5. Here is the relevant snippet...
Totem-Bearer is a variant of Alternate Form (pp . B83-85). Full manifestations swap out racial templates, but the rest stack them (Stacking Templates, p . B261).

So adding a template to your race template is already part of the rules, an example is a Vampire template applied to a human or elf template.
Full Manifestations vs. Partial Manifestations really is just flavor text for change into an animal vs. gain some of the traits of an animal.

The 10% discount is essentially an Accessibility discount and is a minor limitation since you wont always have the abilities. Either because you dont want the drawbacks or because of countermeasures like Exorcism.
Monster Hunters has a Crusader variant that is similar but uses an ongoing FP cost to keep from constant use. I did not go that way here because I wanted players to effectively use travel totems.
GURPS Horror: The Madness Dossier has something similar, though its a mental programming thing.

On the base race form more expensive than the animal form question. You have the gist ofit but do not get the discount if your base form is higher as you don't benefit from that default or base form. There is no drawback to your base form that it can be turned off for instance. A higher base form just means you can have more powerful Alternate Forms for the base cost.

On your last question...
“Totem-Bearer (Horse 2; Raven) [36] .” 3 forms costing 12 points each.
The other part however appears to be a math error. Sad author.
During the playtest and later edits, costs for all the forms changed several times and that example was not updated. Sorry about that, I shall confirm it (but think its just wrong) and send in errata.

I have found Alternate Form to be one of the most confusing advantages in GURPS, which I think is why its reexplained in the above books and this one, plus has its own FAQ entry. How it works is simply less intuitive than most other advantages and I tried to answer a few common questions with this book, while keeping the word count low.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries

Last edited by Refplace; 01-07-2020 at 02:03 AM.
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