Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-10-2011, 11:58 AM   #1
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default Grappling with claws and teeth

What I'm looking for, and it's probably somewhere here already, is the bonuses to grappling with Brawling that having sharp claws and/ or teeth might give?
I've been searching for this but so far all I found was a How to Build it thread.
example: cat jumping onto prey and gripping with claws before sinking its teeth in or raking with hind legs.
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of country = not here when you are:/
It's all in the reflexes
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 12:44 PM   #2
Grouchy Chris
 
Grouchy Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The City of Subdued Excitement
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

I don't follow your question. Brawling is not a grappling skill, so "grappling with Brawling" isn't a legal action. Unless there's something in MA that I've missed.
__________________
The GURPS Wiki has 581 articles and counting!
My blog, mainly about GURPS.
Grouchy Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 12:48 PM   #3
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy Chris View Post
I don't follow your question. Brawling is not a grappling skill, so "grappling with Brawling" isn't a legal action. Unless there's something in MA that I've missed.
I think natural biters can strike with their teeth using Brawling or DX (?). If you can bite and hang on ("worry" as it's called in Martial Arts) you have grappled your opponent with a striking attack.
__________________
My blog:Gaming Ballistic, LLC
My Store: Gaming Ballistic on Shopify
My Patreon: Gaming Ballistic on Patreon
DouglasCole is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 12:57 PM   #4
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy Chris View Post
I don't follow your question. Brawling is not a grappling skill, so "grappling with Brawling" isn't a legal action. Unless there's something in MA that I've missed.
It is, either with a bite, or with a Clinch (the latter requires a Perk).
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 01:04 PM   #5
Dutch_Wolf
 
Dutch_Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands, Eindhoven
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

Some biting rules can be found on Martial Arts p.115, according to that there is no bonus for having sharp teeth except that the damage type changes in a couple of cases.
__________________
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall
My site
Dutch_Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 01:14 PM   #6
Grouchy Chris
 
Grouchy Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The City of Subdued Excitement
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

Okay, if you want to take it that way, sure, you can bite and then hold on for a grapple, but the bite is an ordinary Brawling attack that does your normal biting damage. Sharp Teeth just means that you get cutting damage for your bite, and has no effect on the grapple itself. Sharp Teeth doesn't give a bonus to resist attempts to break free or anything like that, as far as I know.

As for Clinch, I don't see that it makes any difference. If you want to bite and then grapple, you don't need Clinch for that. If you have Sharp Claws and want to use Clinch to grapple with Brawling, then you're grappling, not striking, and the claws don't do anything.
__________________
The GURPS Wiki has 581 articles and counting!
My blog, mainly about GURPS.
Grouchy Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #7
jacobmuller
 
jacobmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Not in your time zone:D
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

Okay, so if I apply the Teeth rules (MA115) to Claws, the critter could roll against its Brawling, applying full location penalties, and choose to hang on and, in effect, Worry but with Claw damage instead of Bite?
It won't have grappled but its victim will count as having been grappled. This allows all the rules in B270-1 to apply?

Would you allow a cat, as a racial skill, the Dual-weapon technique? Off-hand weapon training Perk?

Thank you all for your feedback - preceding and following.
__________________
"Sanity is a bourgeois meme." Exegeek
PS sorry I'm a Parthian shootist: shiftwork + out of country = not here when you are:/
It's all in the reflexes

Last edited by jacobmuller; 03-10-2011 at 11:55 PM. Reason: thank you
jacobmuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 06:02 PM   #8
Gef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

I think I'd at least require a Style Perk to make the claws work like teeth. Off-Hand "Weapon" Training is not normally required for claws, but is mentioned as an option in the "brutal realism" rules, and conversely Dual "Weapon" Attack is not normally allowed, but is mentioned as an option...perfect for an Extra Option perk, I say. -GEF
Gef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 08:32 PM   #9
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

I'm not sure how someone can be grappled when the attacker didn't grapple them. Who does the victim contest in order to break free?

I'd probably say that clawed grapples have to made with a grappling skill, as there is a huge difference between raking claws against the victim and ensnaring the victim with a hold. I'd also rule that a worry with claws only does half damage, from lack of muscular force. On the other hand, I'd upgrade the damage from any bear hugs, choke holds, arm locks, or similar wrestling techniques to be cutting or impaling (as appropriate), since those would allow better opportunities to bring the claws into play.
mlangsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 09:17 PM   #10
lwcamp
 
lwcamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The plutonium rich regions of Washington State
Default Re: Grappling with claws and teeth

I will note that in real life, cat claws seem to be adapted largely for hooking and holding prey with slashing being rather secondary. Various meat-hook like attacks that are natural to predators (such as cat claws, assassin bug probosci, mantis and stomatopod raptorial appendages, the claws of hawks, falcons, owls, and eagles, and likely the toe-claw of dromeosaurid dinosaurs such as velociraptors) are very good at piercing and holding is such a way as to prevent escapes. Likewise, the bites of many predators can be difficult to escape from, since the teeth puncture and prevent squiring out while the jaws clamp down with considerable power (as I know from painful first hand experiences). I would consider giving these sorts of attacks a penalty to escape, but I'm not sure if there is a RAW way of doing so. Here is a house rule I wrote up some time ago to reflect this
http://panoptesv.com/RPGs/Ads-n%27-stuff/Gripper.html

Luke
lwcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
animals, brawling, grappling, martial arts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.