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Old 07-24-2020, 03:51 AM   #71
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Experience Points

Even if you do end up with several characters with ST16 DX16 IQ16, that will not in itself make them the same, or even similar. A Warrior with those stats will be quite different from a Thief and even more different from a Wizard. Even within the same character types there will be significant differences: two Wizards will be defined more by their spell choice than by their stats.
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Old 07-24-2020, 11:23 AM   #72
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Experience Points

Campaigns with super hero stats are definitely more about play-style than anything else. Just like access to magic items and gold can make a 35 point character into a demi-god.

Just do the calcualtions beforehand.

If I want my characters to go a complete story arch that ends with them around 42 point character level. How many nights do I think I can hold the game together. How deadly will the campaign be and when PC's die, do they come back as starting character or at average experience level?. Are those 42 point attributes with or without magic items. How many talents will they pick before you consider them 1 attribute level higher, power wise?

So when you know all that you can set up a leveling scheme and a reward scheme that works. Calculate some averages and stick to it. If you don't you will always run the risk of a maunty haul campaign, a run away power train or end up with characters that are severly under powered for your story ending.

This aspect of GMing is just as important as considering time available for a campaign. I have played in 500+ session campaigns with multiple world changing epic stories and in three game nights mini campaigns featuring a complete story arch. What will be realistic time wise? How often and for how long can your players stick to a schedule. How reliable are the players. How reliable are you? How often do you actually manage to finish campaigns with your gaming group?

When I was a teenager, all campaigns could potentially keep going for ever, but never did. Then when I became a student we had both time and consistency and some truly epic long going camapigns were played. Now I am happy if we can keep the same group together for 10 sessions and actually playing more than 1 or 2 times a month is a luxury for many of us.

An XP system needs to be adjustable to fit within your frame work. If you are going from Zero to Hero in three nights of summer play, your XP gain will need to be extreme with multiple level gains per night. If you are planning on a mega campaign played out over years with 100+ game nights and preferably without perma death, then leveling up attributes will have to be mega slow and the magic item rewards very low per game night.
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:45 PM   #73
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Experience Points

There is clearly nothing you can accomplish with XP that compares to what you can accomplish with exceptional items. Consider (as a simple example) a capable fighter in +5 fine plate, +5 tower shield with toughness II and shield expertise - you are looking at 22 points of armor protection there. Add a suitable weapon or two and you are ready to empty megadungeons back to the wall studs. This actually reminds me a bit of what my 7th grade D+D group did when we realized our 1st level characters were going to take a long time to get to 10th level but we wanted to fight the balrogs that were wandering around in our ludicrous dungeons and fantasy cities... Ridiculous, but horses for courses!
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:00 AM   #74
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Location: Carrboro, NC
Default Re: Experience Points

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Consider (as a simple example) a capable fighter in +5 fine plate, +5 tower shield with toughness II and shield expertise - you are looking at 22 points of armor protection there.
How could a GM resist filling their dungeons with smooth sided 10 ft pits full of water? Or switching to ship based adventures?

Maybe just one giant magnet at the bottom of the dungeon, covered in layers of skeletons wearing fine plate. :)
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Old 07-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #75
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Experience Points

Chasing after a Molly, sir rusts a lot doesn't see all the slimes she just walked around.
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Old 07-26-2020, 02:00 PM   #76
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Experience Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
How could a GM resist filling their dungeons with smooth sided 10 ft pits full of water? Or switching to ship based adventures?

Maybe just one giant magnet at the bottom of the dungeon, covered in layers of skeletons wearing fine plate. :)
Exactly 😂😂😂😂
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:44 AM   #77
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Spending Experience Points

Now that I'm trying to jump into TFT more, this thread has got me thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
I propose a slight change to the following line in
Learning New Spells and Talents (ITL p 45) which says
Each new spell or talent learned costs 500XP – or 1,000 for talents marked (2) in the listing, and so on. As when your character was created, spells cost triple for a non-wizard, and talents cost double for a wizard.

The new line would say
At 34th or lower Attributes:
Each new talent learned costs 250XP – or 500 for talents marked (2) in the listing, and so on. As when your character was created, spells cost triple for a non-wizard, and talents cost double for a wizard.
At 35th or higher Attributes: Revert to original XP costs for talents.

THIS IS BASICALLY MAKING TALENTS COST HALF IF BELOW ATTRIBUTES 35.

[Note: I have not included spells in the above change because I haven’t evaluated how that would affect things.]

With the above alteration, the Ranger would be able to show some gains comparable to his Attribute Hungry mates, but still keep his slightly superior generic character stats.
This is a lot like what I'm thinking, but there is a problem, mentioned by many folks. Namely, it rewards slowing attribute advancement to gain cheap talents.

The remedy is make the cutoff point for cheap talents depend both on attributes and number of talents purchased by XP, I think. Maybe let the talents be cheap until attributes + purchased talents > 37 or so.

Something like that. Still stewing on this one. I'm thinking that I may have trouble running a long campaign or playing very often, so slow advancement will be unsatisfying. Talents are a good way to differentiate characters, but they can't remain so cheap that every character has essentially the same talents. I'm leaning towards a system like JohnPaulB suggests, with a bit of XP inflation (maybe 150pts per session).
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:48 AM   #78
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Experience Points

If the point is to make beginners progress faster...

The first memory point is 100 XPs.
The second memory point is 200 XPs.
The third memory point is 300 XPs.
The fourth memory point is 400 XPs.
The fifth memory point is 500 XPs.
The sixth memory point is 600 XPs.

And so on.

Note that this would balance against wizards since they spend the most memory points. (This would be 100 XP fewer at the 10th memory point, then a higher cost thereafter.)
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Last edited by hcobb; 09-17-2020 at 12:02 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 AM   #79
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Experience Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Even if you do end up with several characters with ST16 DX16 IQ16, that will not in itself make them the same, or even similar. A Warrior with those stats will be quite different from a Thief and even more different from a Wizard. Even within the same character types there will be significant differences: two Wizards will be defined more by their spell choice than by their stats.
They'll still be different, but not as different. The reduction in variation matters.
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