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Old 05-05-2019, 12:53 PM   #1
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default New Xp System: Not a Fan

So I'm really not a fan of the new Xp system. 12,800xp to reach 40 stat points, which at 100 xp per session is 128 sessions regardless of length of activities in them.

Then 128 sessions for stat 41, 256 for stat 42, etc.

If you are using older material (like Tolenkar's Lair) PCs can NEVER realisitally reach the level of the big NPCs. I know the old system could be slow as well, but still, it was more governed by player activity in the games (kill and be successful in Saves and such and you got more xp). It had its issues, but still.

Now, buying talents/spells outside of increasing IQ is great, and I love that. Also love increasing the Mana in your staff with Xp.

I don't know the point of this post, just griping I guess.

Think I'm going to stick with the old system, possibly also increase the xp awards (10 per hour of play, 20 for 3d saves, 30 for 4d, etc), Dx+IQ for killing blows. Maybe even xp for treasure gained (since I do like xp for gp in old school games).
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:02 PM   #2
hcobb
 
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

The new Tolenkar is a 46 attribute character with Mana 40 and 43 IQ points cost of talents and spells. This is merely 512300 XPs for attributes, 8000 XPs for Mana and at least 11500 XP for talents and spells. For a grand total of 531500 XP. An active adventurer can easily make 500 XPs a year so he's only a thousand years old.

The real problem is the Necropus at more than two hundred thousand years old.
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:19 PM   #3
Tywyll
 
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The new Tolenkar is a 46 attribute character with Mana 40 and 43 IQ points cost of talents and spells. This is merely 512300 XPs for attributes, 8000 XPs for Mana and at least 11500 XP for talents and spells. For a grand total of 531500 XP. An active adventurer can easily make 500 XPs a year so he's only a thousand years old.

The real problem is the Necropus at more than two hundred thousand years old.
LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!

That's some Forgotten Realms level nonsense right there!

Thanks for doing the math!

Out of curiosity, where did you get the 500xp per year? Is that in ITL or something and I've missed it or just ballpark figure?
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Old 05-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #4
Skarg
 
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

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Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
Out of curiosity, where did you get the 500xp per year? Is that in ITL or something and I've missed it or just ballpark figure?
New ITL says GMs can give out experience however they like, and its guidelines are about sessions rather than game-time years, so it's his estimate.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:46 PM   #5
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

I think the new XP rules are brilliant. When evaluating them, you have to remember what it was like when every PC had 50+ stat points; it was pretty game breaking and could get frankly boring. The present version lets you reach lofty heights in many respects, but always with a trade off that leaves you weak in some other way. Or you can be balanced and multi-faceted, yet not god like at any one thing.

Anyway, there is a super easy solution: give a lot more XP per session. That part of the rules is left quite vague and open to GM fiat. There is nothing to stop you giving 100 xp per half hour of play. Or 1000 if you want. It is your table.

The only side to this that irritates me are the humanoid NPCs who seem to be normal mortals but have abilities outside the reach of any plausible PC. I wouldn't say the same applies to monsters; who knows how octopi gain stats.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

I like how the new XP System leaves any serious wizard at ST 8 or less. (Surely no dwarf is serious.)

Ergo, Shield Rush the wizard!
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

I consider the new XP progression and limited advancement potential the only major misstep in the Legacy Edition revision. I understand why it was done, but I think it went too far... an over-correction. That said, I certainly don't begrudge anyone who sees the new schedule as an improvement because it does address a core issue from the original system.

For a some alternate approaches to the XP schedule, see the following thread...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160193
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:29 PM   #8
HeatDeath
 
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

I think we may have to face the new reality, pretty unambiguously conveyed by Steve and Phil's comments, that extremely high-powered wizards have methods available to them, currently undocumented and therefore left to the GMs' collective imaginations, that allow for the accumulation of XP at dramatically accelerated rates. Methods that may, perhaps, make wishes, demons, and pentagrams look cute, wholesome, trivial, safe, and non-invasive to the nature of reality, by comparison.

(Evil Stevie has told us everything we know about Cidri, but there's no reason to think he's told us everything he knows about Cidri.)

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Last edited by HeatDeath; 05-05-2019 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 05-05-2019, 07:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

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Originally Posted by HeatDeath View Post
I think we may have to face the new reality, pretty unambiguously conveyed by Steve and Phil's comments...
I don't believe we do, though. That's one of the great things about Steve's design for TFT; it is highly adaptable and the rules should serve the kind of game that you and your players want to play. I'm pretty sure I heard Phil say that a few times. ;)

So if you like having your characters effectively cap out by 40 points after several years of gameplay, great, but in my campaign 48 points will be the top level that PCs (and most NPCs) can reasonably achieve in their adventuring career.
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Old 05-06-2019, 01:19 AM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: New Xp System: Not a Fan

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think the new XP rules are brilliant. When evaluating them, you have to remember what it was like when every PC had 50+ stat points; it was pretty game breaking and could get frankly boring. The present version lets you reach lofty heights in many respects, but always with a trade off that leaves you weak in some other way. Or you can be balanced and multi-faceted, yet not god like at any one thing.

Anyway, there is a super easy solution: give a lot more XP per session. That part of the rules is left quite vague and open to GM fiat. There is nothing to stop you giving 100 xp per half hour of play. Or 1000 if you want. It is your table.

The only side to this that irritates me are the humanoid NPCs who seem to be normal mortals but have abilities outside the reach of any plausible PC. I wouldn't say the same applies to monsters; who knows how octopi gain stats.
I don't see giving more XP being much of a solution. It may be super-easy to give out piles of XP, but that will explode the early game.

There may be solutions, but I don't think they're simple, at least not without having quite a few issues, at least for my tastes.

And I don't mean the effective limit around 40 points. I kind of like that myself. I mean things like:

* lack of adaptations that make sense for races with non-human-like attribute totals
* very quickly vanishing difference between lower-attribute races and others due to the very steep XP curve
* no system for ordinary people learning ordinary talents in ordinary ways
* 500 XP per talent was trying to aim to be something else to do with XP around 38 points, but it missed the mark AND leaves no other way to learn talents, and 500 XP is a huge amount for most of the population if they average 30 points and use the same rules
* giving a weird huge incentive to take as high IQ as you can to get what is effectively a huge leap forward in character progression via talents & spells
* weirdly making gargoyles and reptile men start at 32 points, even though standard NPC/summoned gargoyles are still 39 points, and reptile men are still huge but now have no NPC stats listed.

Last edited by Skarg; 05-06-2019 at 01:27 AM.
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