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Old 05-08-2019, 12:59 PM   #41
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Modern Heros

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Keep in mind, however that you are using the same system to simulate two entirely different sets of people and circumstances. Thus, the modern warrior doesn't really have to worry about lugging 60lbs of gear INTO combat (or swinging a 15lb sword for half an hour once he gets there) -- he just has to worry about getting his extraneous equipment (tent half, mess kit, blanket, spare socks, and your half of the roll of barbed wire) to the general area. When you're actually fighting, depending on circumstances of course, you spend most of your time prone or crawling, aiming your rifle from some kind of supported position, and otherwise NOT doing medieval warrior stuff. Once the shooting started, we generally dropped packs and crap and went with our webbing (with whatever was attached to it, usually first aid pouch, canteen, spare magazines, a knife, and maybe a few grenades), weapon, and helmet/armor (all of which totals up to considerably less than 60lbs of junk -- even with a full canteen)
Yes, I get that.

Hcobb's ST 15 was him as usual extrapolating from the letter of the rules, and using a reference to a real-world 152 pound load.

To which I would say:

* ITL itself points out that its system is a baseline, not to let its suggestions lead you to results you feel/know are wrong, and that it matters how you carry stuff.

* The ITL weights themselves do not map well to real-world weights in many cases, for example that 15-pound sword you mentioned.

* Seems to me the solution to the encumbrance issue would not be to give every soldier ST 15, but to develop a more sophisticated encumbrance system, and/or better weight values. Maybe you need ST 15 to carry a 150-pound weight around in your arms, but loaded properly with a well-designed pack so the weight is balanced and largely born by your skeleton, not so much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
Likewise, people today are quite a bit better educated than even your most well-educated medieval monk or sage, so an IQ of 11 doesn't seem to me to be particularly out of line. DX is probably pretty close, assuming you had an active childhood and didn't spend all your time in front of a video game console.
So you're talking about IQ including experience and saying if an uneducated medieval person might often be IQ 8, the modern equivalent by comparison would get +2-3 IQ for public education, etc?

I can see the logic of that. However that's kind of like defining modern Americans as being a race with min IQ 10, or with an advantage or talent that effectively gives them +2-3 IQ over medieval humans... which is a different context than I was thinking of. I was wanting to keep the usual TFT scale where 10 is average and so a fairly large number of people are IQ 8-9, and I don't think a large portion of the population can't be trained to use a modern rifle, hence my original questioning of a min IQ 11 guns talent.
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Old 05-08-2019, 05:32 PM   #42
KevinJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona
Default Re: Modern Heros

For a modern game, characters may need a chunck of XP to buy Talents. For example: 32AP and 4-5k XP that can only be spent on Talents.

You could also do "This professions gets these stats and these Talents" as a beginning character.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:16 PM   #43
JLV
 
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far northern California
Default Re: Modern Heros

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yes, I get that.

Hcobb's ST 15 was him as usual extrapolating from the letter of the rules, and using a reference to a real-world 152 pound load.

To which I would say:

* ITL itself points out that its system is a baseline, not to let its suggestions lead you to results you feel/know are wrong, and that it matters how you carry stuff.

* The ITL weights themselves do not map well to real-world weights in many cases, for example that 15-pound sword you mentioned.

* Seems to me the solution to the encumbrance issue would not be to give every soldier ST 15, but to develop a more sophisticated encumbrance system, and/or better weight values. Maybe you need ST 15 to carry a 150-pound weight around in your arms, but loaded properly with a well-designed pack so the weight is balanced and largely born by your skeleton, not so much.



So you're talking about IQ including experience and saying if an uneducated medieval person might often be IQ 8, the modern equivalent by comparison would get +2-3 IQ for public education, etc?

I can see the logic of that. However that's kind of like defining modern Americans as being a race with min IQ 10, or with an advantage or talent that effectively gives them +2-3 IQ over medieval humans... which is a different context than I was thinking of. I was wanting to keep the usual TFT scale where 10 is average and so a fairly large number of people are IQ 8-9, and I don't think a large portion of the population can't be trained to use a modern rifle, hence my original questioning of a min IQ 11 guns talent.
Well, Steve himself has repeatedly said that IQ, ST, and DX don't really "map" to real-world capabilities exactly. Like any oversimplification, it takes into account a number of things and then tries to depict them with a single result. So yes, I would say that there are different "kinds" of intelligence represented in IQ -- everything from basic underlying genetics to amount of education (actually absorbed, that is -- just sitting at a desk and day-creaming while someone drones away in the background doesn't actually impart much knowledge) AND practical experience. So your Medieval guy might still have an IQ of 10 or 11, but HIS knowledge base will be very different from YOUR knowledge base, encompassing completely different basic skill sets and understandings. A modern person, from a society like ours, by the time they reach the age of 18, almost certainly is far more "literate" than the existing Literacy Talent would imply...
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