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Old 05-26-2020, 09:04 AM   #31
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

You can have dystopian settings with universal magic. For example, you could have every human being innately possessing Magery 0 as a default in the setting. Without proper training though, they will develop forms of magic that only uses Corruption as its power source, inevitably leading to madness and mutation, meaning that every commoner avoids using magic. It is only the nobility that possesses the training for magic that uses FP instead of Corruption, allowing them to avoid suffering inevitable madness and mutation.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
You can have dystopian settings with universal magic. For example, you could have every human being innately possessing Magery 0 as a default in the setting. Without proper training though, they will develop forms of magic that only uses Corruption as its power source, inevitably leading to madness and mutation, meaning that every commoner avoids using magic. It is only the nobility that possesses the training for magic that uses FP instead of Corruption, allowing them to avoid suffering inevitable madness and mutation.
In the 90's I did some work on a fantasy setting where magic warped the user. For a starting wizard, every point spent on IQ, magery or spells required an equal number of points in (negative) mental and physical disadvantages to represent the corrupting influence of magic. While the extra disadvantages lowered a character's point total, he did not get extra points to spend because of them. I don't recall how I planned to handle new/improved magical abilities gained in play, but I think it was about the same: spend 5 points on dpells, get -5 points in disadvantages. Yes, this meant that over time a serious mage would become an unstable and deformed creature ...
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I have no strong opinions about this, that being a question of what the individual GM believes will break their world. For example, I generally wouldn't regard enchantment as an issue, but it appears to be for your campaign. That said, DF's approach to modifying magical effects is a pretty decent start.
Right, but I'm asking you - what do you think is problematic on that angle for you as a GM?



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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
D'oh. This is very useful. I couldn't find it for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
If you want to follow the old 'lost secrets of the past' trope, it could be that Enchanting was once common, but now the method is forgotten, perhaps because the only family or families who could do it died out due to excessive inbreeding and/or internal conflicts.
That's one possible way.

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Since Powers have to spend a +20% surcharge to use Qi as an attribute and there are no skills based on QI except power skills I dont think so.
Besides the skills its mostly like Will or HT in providing energy and resistance vs, some powers. I think pricing it as HT is therefor appropriate.
The downside to the 10/level price is its easy to buy up so you have higher average than if it were 15 or 20 points a level. If you want to counter that I suggest 20 points like IQ or DX but removing the surcharge modifier on powers.
I think even with adding Based on Attribute for everything it's still kind of cheap. I'm not going to mess with things for now, but I'm keeping a close eye on it.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
If enchanting a magical item using sorcerous empowerment requires the expenditure of character points, why not make that an actual in-game element of the process rather than just a metagame concept?

What if enchanting requires the enchanter to actually put a part of his soul/essence/power/chi into the object. And it comes at the cost of weakening him... perhaps those points come out of ability scores, or it lowers the Sorcerous Empowerment or Qi (I'm assuming that's your "Magic" attribute). Edit: After all, gaining character points is a metagame concept, and unlikely to occur for any NPC, so the points have to come from somewhere. And maybe the item becomes a back door for targeting the enchanter... you can charm the enchanter by casting charm on the sword he made.

An enchanter will only be able to enchant a few items before he burns out his magical ability/potential. Enchanting items therefore is likely only going to occur when it's important, or as a gift representing a great honor ("You have saved me and I owe you my life, so please take this magical sword empowered by the life you have saved.")

Part of this makes the assumption that only the enchanter can spend part of his soul/essence/magic and can't steal it from others. If you can steal from others, I can see enchanting getting a bit dark and sacrificial in nature (rumors of such black magic might exist, though).

And you still need all the training to become an enchanter. You can't just decide to enchant something when you're near death just because... so becoming an enchanter is literally a life-long commitment.

This could also lead to a cultural incorporation of enchantment. When a powerful family mage is getting close to death, perhaps he (culturally) ritually sacrifices his magic to make an item for his family, as his legacy to live on pass his own death. Magic items become very linked to heritage/inheritance, and most noble families would take a dim view of people using items created by the magical-power sacrifice of their ancestors.

Most magical items encountered by players are therefore from deceased enchanters because of the costs involved.

Then throw in the rumor that some enchantments also sometimes pass on a part of the personality of the enchanter, as an unexplained side-effect. When used properly, or certain feats are accomplished with the item, they can gain sentience (if you have sentient items in your setting).. or a semi-sentience/willfulness of their own. Or just have rumors of such things even if they don't actually exist.

The idea that it burns out a portion of your ability to cast spells is kind of brilliant as an in game and out of game mechanism. I like it. A lot. But I'm going to have to carefully consider how that impacts things. One idea I had was to create a new advantage based on Impulse Points that could be used in place of character points that could regenerate. Maybe only a few bloodlines can master this ability so it lets me have my cake and eat it too. Lesser enchanters have to sacrifice parts of themselves to create, while greater minds can create without sacrificing of themselves.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:14 AM   #35
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
There's a two-book series (Sorcerors of Verdun, by Stovall).

In it, the world knows of sorcerors. It's WW 1, and there are sorcerors in the trenches.

One of the sorcerors is a cross-dressing woman (hiding her gender, so she can fight) who fled an arranged marriage.

Bloodlines are protected with deadly earnest. Breeding in a new ability is considered paramount. Pretty good series.

The sorcerous powers of the Austrian-Hungarian imperial family... yikes!

Edit: And it addresses sorcerous enchanting, something that was THOUGHT to be impossible...

Spoiler:  
I'll check it out.

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Originally Posted by copeab View Post
Oh, I'm sure that's how things were supposed to work in the beginning, but there is too much incentive for the nobles to take all the power for themselves. You simultaneously take away the capability of the common to effectively revolt and take away the motivation for a revolt by making the commoners reliant on the nobles' good will to eat and live in any comfort.

That's power and it would only take generation of nobles to make it so.

(Yeah, I strongly favor dystopian settings ovet utopian ones)
I'm the reverse. I like some hope in my gaming otherwise it's just as miserable as the real world. Someone has to stand up and be the shining ideal that give others hope for the future. Otherwise it's just mud and skullduggery.
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:57 PM   #36
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Social Strata and Magic Ability

So I kind of came up with how I want to treat this:

Royalty: High Talent, Sorcerous Empowerment of 25+, access to all spells/elements including those that are combination elements like Enchant (which will be a combination of Air and Earth).
Upper Nobility: As above, but Empowerment is 20 or more.
Middle Noblity: Moderate Talent, Sorcerous Empowerment of 18 or more, and access to enchantment.
Lower Nobility: Moderate Talent, Sorcerous Empowerment of 10 or more, and access to enchantment.
Crafters: Low to Moderate Talent, Sorcerous Empowerment of 5 or more, access to 3-4 elements (typically Earth, Air, Wood, and Metal).
Commoners: Low Talent, No Sorcerous Empowerement, access to 1 or 2 elements.

I'm thinking that magic is a 1 in 100 gift is matrilineal - it passes through the mother to children. This enforces the desire for mates with high ability in magic among other traits. (Which I like.)


I'm wondering should females have a higher affinity for complicated magics like Enchantment while males get by on brute force alone. Thoughts?
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