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Old 02-20-2011, 10:27 PM   #1
JCD
 
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Default Demon/Angel Asian Families?

Okay

Demons and Angels need to make Roles to interact with societies.

However, Asian cultures are very much based upon family relationships and reputations. Face time. Social networks. It isn't as easy as getting a few id's, fudging some memories, and showing up someplace. In Asia, unless they have undergone great dislocations (see Chinese Civil War, Cambodia, Vietnam War etc) there will be strenuous efforts to make this person click into some social network.

So, since Roles are much harder to establish and maintain, it seems that Celestials in Asia would create 'families' held by some long term Celestial/Reliever groups to be able to pick off ready made Roles. It's possible that the Celestials are switched in and out, but it's also plausible that Asia tends to be a 'dead end' assignment. Once you go in, you rarely go out because of the long term investment in both cultural education and creation of the Role.
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

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It's possible that the Celestials are switched in and out, but it's also plausible that Asia tends to be a 'dead end' assignment.
Keep in mind that Celestials are immortal. Committing to a Role to last a human lifetime is a long-term commitment, but not a permanent or terminal one.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

As above, celestials worked with ancient and feudal society for centuries already. Nothing too special. Besides, diasporas and modern living in most of South & East Asia is already quite powerful. Even within a few living generations the older family members talk about how much has changed.

Perhaps add a few more, or higher, roles, but don't feel too overburdened by those cultural differences while GMing. First off, more people have walked on Chinese soil historically than any other (with India a close second) -- so celestials would've mastered infiltration there and its surrounding sphere of influence millennia ago. Besides, there's far more similarity than there is difference, and even more so nowadays in any case.

Now what would be hard to emulate is infiltrating a tribal society in Borneo, Amazon, or Papua New Guinea that has yet to have first contact. Not so much for celestial infiltration, but for our human interpretation of the experience. I'm sure celestials can camp outside, observe, and slip on in, 'cuz y'know, like the movie "Fallen," 'tiiiiiiime is on my siiiide, oh yes it is! tiiiiiiime is on my side...'
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

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As above, celestials worked with ancient and feudal society for centuries already. Nothing too special. Besides, diasporas and modern living in most of South & East Asia is already quite powerful. Even within a few living generations the older family members talk about how much has changed.

Perhaps add a few more, or higher, roles, but don't feel too overburdened by those cultural differences while GMing....
Can't speak for the other countries, but here in Korea the gov definitely keeps track of parent/child ties. Recently in the newspaper there were complaints about the equivalent-of-Social-Security system. Basically if an old person has living children who are working, those children are expected to support the old person who as a result does not receive government benefits. The gov therefore has a strong financial interest in tracking parent-child relationships.

OTOH bribery/corruption is a huge problem, so a celestial could bribe the relevant people into claiming they're family...

The Japanese koseki records system is legendary, but Japan has recently had problems with really old people whose deaths weren't recorded. And with several large cities it's got to be far from perfect...
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:22 AM   #5
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

One wonders how quickly the cultures in Asia change. Supposedly they are legendarily slow, but would a person who was around in the Song Era in China have enough cultural familiarity to get along even in the Ming Era a mere 200 years later? Somehow, I doubt it, first because of all the emphasis on 'really ancient stuff' (i.e. the stuff he was familiar with as typical but has since entered 'great great grandpa' territory) and the huge gap on 'accepted custom' which developed in the internim.
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

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Originally Posted by gjc8 View Post
Keep in mind that Celestials are immortal. Committing to a Role to last a human lifetime is a long-term commitment, but not a permanent or terminal one.
Well put. One can become an 'Asian expert' by, of course, being raised there. And you raise an interesting point: would the 'custom' for Asian assignments involve using 'baby' vessels that are allowed to age and develop for very strong roles?

Of course, in a non-Asian sense, any period of great social dislocation would probably have Heaven and Hell sending a few thousand more Celestials to take advantage of the lack of paperwork or background. So there is a 'Boomer' bump of sorts in Celestials which is temporal and geographical. Lots of 50 year old Vietnamese angels, for example.

Just musing
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

I like the comments from Liber Servitorum about roles. Basically paperwork can cause headaches, but it's the human testimony that really throws things for a loop.

Considering India and China (and their spheres of influence) have had experience with complex bureaucracy centuries (some might argue millennia) longer than modern Western Europe, one could make an argument that at some age-old point it was easier to fake the paperwork and move around in those societies. Feudal Europe was a pain because peons had no real right to move around until the rise of pilgrimages (which is notable in the rise of relics, and most prominent, grand cathedrals with their ambulatories). That leaves small villages where everyone knows everyone else, and everyone looked none too kindly on the unknown traveler.

However, it would have been pretty consistent throughout those times (from Europe, Asia, and Africa) to have distant travelers be given hospitality and then a formal introduction to the nearest court or large hall. Part of it is good manners, another part is collecting news from afar, and another was keeping such news and ideas from upsetting the local power balance unwittingly. It's that human role-playing part that'd likely get stuck in the craw of many PCs; but them's the attitude of those times. Passports, letters of pilgrimage, keys to the realm, etc. all ancient stuff -- and not all that hard to fake for celestials -- but it'd be all that "hominis locorum verificatus corpus civis*" Role stuff that'd be a challenge. Gotta get that, "If Bob can vouch for you, you must be OK," seal of approval.

*(Forgive my butchering of Latin. I know not a lick, but darn, doesn't it look cool!?)
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:37 PM   #8
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Gotta get that, "If Bob can vouch for you, you must be OK," seal of approval.
This is another point. Celestials in long-term Roles can help establish new (lower-quality) Roles for others who show up.
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Old 02-26-2011, 08:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

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So, since Roles are much harder to establish and maintain, it seems that Celestials in Asia would create 'families' held by some long term Celestial/Reliever groups to be able to pick off ready made Roles. It's possible that the Celestials are switched in and out, but it's also plausible that Asia tends to be a 'dead end' assignment. Once you go in, you rarely go out because of the long term investment in both cultural education and creation of the Role.
High-level Roles are usually a lifetime in the making, in Asia and elsewhere. To build a really solid Role, you start with a baby vessel and grow it up. The first several years can usually be farmed out to a Reliever, one of whose tasks is to prep a briefing for its successor.

In societies with a strong emphasis on family, the tricky part is inserting the baby into society. One option is to build dynasties of celestials, yes. But one of the most useful things a Soldier can do for their side is to live a quiet, mundane life - and integrate a couple of infant celestials into their family. It takes some doing to fake the pregnancy, but it's worth it to create a rock-solid Role. Miscarriages are even better (though psychologically hard on the Soldier), since there's even medical documentation of the pregnancy.
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Old 02-26-2011, 09:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Demon/Angel Asian Families?

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But one of the most useful things a Soldier can do for their side is to live a quiet, mundane life - and integrate a couple of infant celestials into their family. It takes some doing to fake the pregnancy, but it's worth it to create a rock-solid Role.
Well, it worked for Martha and Jonathan Kent's boy .... ;)
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