New power for human males!

[Anders]

Scientific breakthrough

Would this build be appropriate: Terror 1 (Always On, -20%; Mice only, -80%; Sense-Based: Scent -20%) [6]

Somehow it doesn't seem worth the points. :)

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Anders

Scientific breakthrough

Would this build be appropriate: Terror 1 (Always On, -20%; Mice only, -80%; Sense-Based: Scent -20%) [6]

Somehow it doesn't seem worth the points. :)

That's because Terror is overpriced.

[starslayer]

But this is not true terror, and it radically increases the mouse's pain threshold.

The mice are not cowering in fear, vomiting, and otherwise behaving as if they were failing fright checks, they are simply stressed.

Which is far more in line with emotion control.

However going even further bask, this is not a special effect of being male, but a special restriction on the detect(pheromones) power of the mouse template.

So it's not that human males have terror or emotion control, it's that mice have:

Detect (Pherimones) side effect: detection of male predator hormones causes stress.

Mice also seem to have HPT (Only when under stress)

Which would seem to indicate that the force of evolution is a munchkin (Humm , how can I get HPT for virtually free AND discount my detect power but still have it apply in 90% of situations where it is needed?)

[Figleaf23]

I think this may be scientific proof of certain claims made in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by starslayer

But this is not true terror, and it radically increases the mouse's pain threshold.

The mice are not cowering in fear, vomiting, and otherwise behaving as if they were failing fright checks, they are simply stressed.

Which is far more in line with emotion control.

However going even further bask, this is not a special effect of being male, but a special restriction on the detect(pheromones) power of the mouse template.

So it's not that human males have terror or emotion control, it's that mice have:

Detect (Pherimones) side effect: detection of male predator hormones causes stress.

Mice also seem to have HPT (Only when under stress)

Which would seem to indicate that the force of evolution is a munchkin (Humm , how can I get HPT for virtually free AND discount my detect power but still have it apply in 90% of situations where it is needed?)

The article unfortunately doesn't mention how they were able to link the effect specifically to a stress response. I'm curious about that.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

That's because Terror is overpriced.

Is there a homebrewed or forum-made solution to this?

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

The article unfortunately doesn't mention how they were able to link the effect specifically to a stress response. I'm curious about that.

This is not the only article that has been written about this discovery.

Some of the other ones went into further detail. One of the important points that makes a lot of current research potentially moot is that when there was a male researcher pain response was 28% lower. Meaning that it took 28% greater intensity for the animal to even register pain. They linked this to a stress response rather then the kind of counter-intuitive direct correlation that having a male in the room made the animals more resistant to pain due to supportive reasons.

My understanding of how this process went down:

Discovery: We have conclusive evidence that says that when there is a male researcher in the room the mice become more tolerant to pain.

Potential causes:
1- This is supportive in some way
2- This is negative in some way.

2a- The mice are being put under stress by the smell of a top predator and the release of stress hormones is suppressing pain.
2aa- evolutionary concept: If mice can be resistant to pain when there is a predator around then they are more likely to be able to escape to safety during a predator attack, mice that can escape to safety get to breed, and thus this becomes a trait of being a mouse over time.
2ab- Blood tests performed on mice when a male researcher and female researcher are in the room are performed; male test results come back with higher stress related hormones in the blood.

There of course now requires a lot of confirmation testing. Make men wear sealed suits and tend to mice (is there a visual component), have some mice that are administers entirely by robots, find some very manly looking women (taller, broader shoulders, etc) tend to mice and check them again (again checks for visual component).

Spray a woman with male scent hormones, spray a man with female scent hormones; spray robots with either (how much does it take to get a response, does an increase amount of hormones make the effect stronger or weaker)

There is still a LOT of research to be done in this category, and stress is only the most likely cause.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Raekai

Is there a homebrewed or forum-made solution to this?

I have actually never had a problem with the pricing of terror, it is very effective advantage at level 1.

However like essentially all afflictions its the per level pricing that is the issue.

One level of terror will effectively render 50% of opponents under a failed fright check in a surprise attack, and about 25% per turn in combat; that's actually not bad for 20 points. (Of course assuming that 'opponents' represents blocks of individuals with an average stat of 10 and no specific advantages that render them immune/resistant to fright checks)

Ten levels of terror will effectively render inoperable large groups of opponents (because now they are also failing those fright checks by large numbers), it will also cost 200 points, there are much more effective ways to do this for 200 points; you could just take a selective area attack with high damage and armour divisor and actually disable/kill your foes for that price.

Having the FIRST level of terror cost 20 points and then having subsequent levels cost less would solve situation.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by starslayer

This is not the only article that has been written about this discovery.

Some of the other ones went into further detail. One of the important points that makes a lot of current research potentially moot is that when there was a male researcher pain response was 28% lower. Meaning that it took 28% greater intensity for the animal to even register pain. They linked this to a stress response rather then the kind of counter-intuitive direct correlation that having a male in the room made the animals more resistant to pain due to supportive reasons.

My understanding of how this process went down:

Discovery: We have conclusive evidence that says that when there is a male researcher in the room the mice become more tolerant to pain.

Potential causes:
1- This is supportive in some way
2- This is negative in some way.

2a- The mice are being put under stress by the smell of a top predator and the release of stress hormones is suppressing pain.
2aa- evolutionary concept: If mice can be resistant to pain when there is a predator around then they are more likely to be able to escape to safety during a predator attack, mice that can escape to safety get to breed, and thus this becomes a trait of being a mouse over time.
2ab- Blood tests performed on mice when a male researcher and female researcher are in the room are performed; male test results come back with higher stress related hormones in the blood.

There of course now requires a lot of confirmation testing. Make men wear sealed suits and tend to mice (is there a visual component), have some mice that are administers entirely by robots, find some very manly looking women (taller, broader shoulders, etc) tend to mice and check them again (again checks for visual component).

Spray a woman with male scent hormones, spray a man with female scent hormones; spray robots with either (how much does it take to get a response, does an increase amount of hormones make the effect stronger or weaker)

There is still a LOT of research to be done in this category, and stress is only the most likely cause.

Interesting. However there is a slight hiccup in the reasoning at 2a and 2aa, inasmuch as it posits a trait that would take effect against only about half of all predators.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by starslayer

I have actually never had a problem with the pricing of terror, it is very effective advantage at level 1.



Having the FIRST level of terror cost 20 points and then having subsequent levels cost less would solve situation.

It already works that way; 30 points base cost + 10/additional level. So level 10 is "only" 120 points.