Lecherousness & Bisexuality

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

As I read it, Lecherousness is not "every so often the GM plants an attractive character in your path and you make a fool of yourself."

A) I didn't say "every so often" and 2) then you're reading it wrong.

Lecherousness is "you are constantly on the prowl" and in any group of a dozen members of the appropriate sex you should find at least one target. With Lecherousness, its the player's responsibility to get busy whenever they are in the presence of a group of the right sex.

In what way is that actually a problem? Hint: It isn't, until it is.

In other words... "The GM creates a situation in which your behavior is problematic." How problematic? Wlll... that's a combination between how much you paid for the Disad (Self Control Cost Modifier) and how the GM runs the game.

If they read "Like all success rolls, self-control rolls are subject to modifiers" and aren't a jerk about, then having a gun put to your head and being told "Make another damned comment about sex, just do it!" should grant you a bonus. Probably enough such that you only fail on a 17 or 18 if your SC roll is a 15.

Hitting on or groping people becomes your character's default behaviour, not something they do in special situations created by the GM.

But, and I'm gonna stress this again, it's only a problem if the GM sets the stage for that behavior to be a problem.

The self-control rolls are for situations like "yes, he does have a nice butt and is bent over in front of me, but I can't cop a feel, we need his mother's signature."

And in what manner does being bisexual have anything to do with this? Nothing, which was my point.

If the GM puts the situation there, and they want your Character to be tempted, they will set up that stage. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter how gropy the Lech gets, if it's not to their detriment.



(Which is why I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've adjusted Lecherousness to being more monetarily problematic in my DF games)

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I was going to mention those sound like people with some form of sex addiction, but then I realized that's more-or-less what GURPS Lecherousness is. It's a general problem with the various self-control Disadvantages in GURPS that, even at the (15) level, they don't represent a mere tendency, but a serious disorder.

At least as I understand it, a 15-point mental disadvantage is supposed to be a serious disorder. Plausible threats of grievious bodily harm would definitely give a bonus to the self-control roll, and you don't have to act immediately, but I would expect that if a character with Lecherousness has a few hours free in a new community, they go try to get into someone's pants (and yes, if they are held hostage they may well suggest what their captor could do to their innocent body). They will leave a trail of offended people and unexpectedly complicated relationships wherever they go, unless they avoid all contact with people they could be attracted to.

Harry P. Flashman probably has Lecherousness (15) or (12) in GURPS.

I don't think that is in any way a problem. If you want 'eccentric' then pick a Quirk or a 5-point disadvantage. There are many to chose from.

I think that some GURPS authors have used Addiction to represent characters who get grumpy without regular partner-sex ... Compulsive Behaviour could also work for people who compulsively grope or cat-call or flash, or Bruno's acquaintance who had trouble concentrating unless he went home for a quickie at lunch.

A 'partner of the week' disadvantage, for characters who keep seeking out new lovers but don't make a pass at everything that moves, could be fun to write up. So could be something to suit noir detectives who are "a sucker for a pretty face" and softer interpretations of Conan. So Lecherousness is not at all the only trait you can use for a very sexual or romantic character.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

At least as I understand it, a 15-point mental disadvantage is supposed to be a serious disorder. Plausible threats of grievious bodily harm would definitely give a bonus to the self-control roll, and you don't have to act immediately, but I would expect that if a character with Lecherousness has a few hours free in a new community, they go try to get into someone's pants (and yes, if they are held hostage they may well suggest what their captor could do to their innocent body). They will leave a trail of offended people and unexpectedly complicated relationships wherever they go, unless they avoid all contact with people they could be attracted to.

That's going to depend heavily on the GM (although I certainly do agree it - and other Self Control Disadvantages - represents a serious mental disorder). The general trend in GURPS is that being in an extremely stressful situation such as having a gun pressed to one's head penalizes Self Control rolls - it's harder to control yourself when the stuff hits the fan. Also, even if the GM gives you a +5 in such a situation, the foe simply being Beautiful/Handsome is sufficient to negate that - and a Very Beautiful/Very Handsome foe results in a net -5, for a 50% chance you'll get your brains blown out. Personally, I'd welcome as system that lets you opt against "acting out" upon failing a Self Control roll, but with some other penalty. Some sort of mounting penalty due to stress (which can be alleviated by "acting out") might work well, but that's probably a topic for another thread.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

A 'partner of the week' disadvantage, for characters who keep seeking out new lovers but don't make a pass at everything that moves, could be fun to write up. So could be something to suit noir detectives who are "a sucker for a pretty face" and softer interpretations of Conan. So Lecherousness is not at all the only trait you can use for a very sexual or romantic character.

"Sucker for a pretty face" is Charitable with an Accessibility Limitation.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Acting Skill asks why it is being ignored here.

That sounds like a great candidate for a complimentary skill for influence skills.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

It might just be me, but my experience says reality actually works opposite this.

At least with straight women and men hitting on them. I can't really speak to the other 3 avenues of attraction with the same depth or breadth of experience.

You mean those with high esteem are angered by interest and suspicious of disinterest?

I would distinguish between interest (noting others' reactions) vs. actually making passes at them. The latter is more of a "how dare you think I'm in your league?" being annoyed if unattractive people flirt?

That could more than esteem though, but maybe some kind of social disadvantage? Being easily angered (and maybe starting conflicts with people) merely for interest seems like a drawback.

Originally Posted by Polydamas

Hitting on or groping people becomes your character's default behaviour, not something they do in special situations created by the GM.

Yeah I actually need to retract my earlier question about "appealing" where I thought "you're not obligated to hit on average (0-point) attractive chars?"

I think that's the case if there are attractive (or better) ones around, but I forgot the last bit:

you are likely to change your standards of attractiveness if no truly attractive members of the appropriate sex are available!

That could mean, not only that you would begin hitting on average (or even ugly) women if no >=attractive ones are around, but it might even be interpreted to mean you'd hit on "attractive members of the inappropriate sex" too?

Sub the "very" H/B triggers you don't need to roll more than daily to avoid making passes... and it isn't entirely clear how extensive a "pass" needs to be. Does "using what-ever wiles and skills you can bring to bear." always mean you need to grope them, for example, or could you simply give them a smouldering flirty look?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Plane

Sub the "very" H/B triggers you don't need to roll more than daily to avoid making passes... and it isn't entirely clear how extensive a "pass" needs to be. Does "using what-ever wiles and skills you can bring to bear." always mean you need to grope them, for example, or could you simply give them a smouldering flirty look?

I think that's a key point. When I wrote the original GURPS Steampunk, I said that Lecherousness didn't mean you had to make an obvious pass that would cause scandal and create instant social penalties; what you had to do was become focused on pursuing the target of your admiration—for example, you might strive to be alone with them so you could declare your interest. Being strongly motivated does not necessarily make you an idiot.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Plane

You mean those with high esteem are angered by interest and suspicious of disinterest?

No, I mean they consider 'interest' to be their due and find 'disinterest' intriguing.

It's a fine line to walk between paying attention and ignoring a person who 'believes they are entitled' to being fawned over due to their looks, and I got very good at knowing which side of the line to be on to generate and increase their interest in me. I also eventually decided it wasn't very much fun, but that's down to what I wanted in my life, not down to any indictment of their personality or looks.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by whswhs

When I wrote the original GURPS Steampunk, I said that Lecherousness didn't mean you had to make an obvious pass that would cause scandal and create instant social penalties; what you had to do was become focused on pursuing the target of your admiration—for example, you might strive to be alone with them so you could declare your interest.

If there is more than one attractive person of your preferred gender I'm not sure it would lead to a motive to be alone with them though, since that would interfere with making passes at the other attractive ones... although they should be able to plan "I'll try to get the next hot girl alone to hit on her if this one doesn't work" but how would you determine who they hit on first if they have equal attractiveness?

Originally Posted by evileeyore

they consider 'interest' to be their due
and find 'disinterest' intriguing.

I think that might just be a component (perhaps a common one) of personalities in general, and not necessarily more frequent amongst more confident/attractive people?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Plane

If there is more than one attractive person of your preferred gender I'm not sure it would lead to a motive to be alone with them though, since that would interfere with making passes at the other attractive ones... although they should be able to plan "I'll try to get the next hot girl alone to hit on her if this one doesn't work" but how would you determine who they hit on first if they have equal attractiveness?

Ah, Buridan's ass! It seems to me that if you can't choose one to focus on, even if it's by tossing a coin, then you have a different disadvantage or quirk. In fact I think it's Indecisive (p. B140). But in any case, in the Victorian era, you could be pretty sure that hitting on a woman wouldn't work if there were other people present, as she would be a figure of scandal if she let you do it. So staying in the presence of both equally attractive women would likely mean getting nowhere with either. That's surely the least desirable outcome for Lecherousness.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Plane

If there is more than one attractive person of your preferred gender I'm not sure it would lead to a motive to be alone with them though, since that would interfere with making passes at the other attractive ones... although they should be able to plan "I'll try to get the next hot girl alone to hit on her if this one doesn't work" but how would you determine who they hit on first if they have equal attractiveness?

The same way you make other choices that come down to your character's whim: chose for them, or roll a die! Attraction is mysterious, one person's squick is another's squee. But a character with Lecherousness should get busy whenever they have some spare time in the company of people of a gender they are attracted to.

The GM can tell you that your character has the hots for the skeptical quartermaster or the mechanic fixing your getaway vehicle, but otherwise its your responsibility to make a nuisance of your character.