12-10-2012, 08:45 PM | #31 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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12-10-2012, 08:49 PM | #32 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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The myGURPS page does all this, I am just surprised that in a universal system that this idea of adapting to a preferred concept is knocking so many people for a loop. |
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12-10-2012, 09:02 PM | #33 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
If I had to come up with an easy way to handle this, here's how I would do it:
Split the Wealth advantage into two equally priced traits. Assets and Income. Apply this also to the disadvantage versions of Wealth. You would have Assets (Multimillionaire 1) to own the Millennium Falcon. Then give yourself a limited version of both the Income disadvantage and the Income advantage. Income (Poor; Mitigator, Millennium Falcon, -x%) [?] and also Income (Very Wealthy; Gadget, Millennium Falcon, -x%) [?] If this was really important for me to model with the fewest changes, that's how I would do it.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
12-10-2012, 09:07 PM | #34 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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Mechanics: Wealth+debt forms a new advantage, as per building new advantages. This new advantage is very customizable by the amount of starting money and the amount of money that you make, which is why I and others are such great fans of it. Stop, end, enough to say about the new advantage which is a combination of Wealth+debt mechanically. Story: Its difficult to envision how someone has great things and is not able to leverage them into more money, so we have been talking about that as well, as they are related items- but they are also disconnect. The story for WHY you have great items and are unable to leverage it into great wealth is separate from the mechanics, but bears discussion. Related: I have further postulated that the value of an item is NOT related to its sticker cost, and this can be critical for the mechanical price that a player will pay for gear. This does not factor in to the mechanics of a new advantage which is the combination of wealth+debt, nor the story to justify having a good item without being able to leverage it for money. As such I encourage consideration of such when potentially adjusting the price for purchase with starting wealth (IE- Cars cost 20% of starting wealth, used cars 5-10% however a standard Honda civic with no power steering and manual everything is only .5% of starting wealth; however they will all get you to another location). This is again unrelated to story reasons for how you can have high wealth items and be unable to leverage them for wealth, or a mechanical representation of having better starting items but not a higher rate of pay. |
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12-10-2012, 09:14 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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If I'm playing a duke that's just been kicked off his land and he's on the run, how much do I need to pay for his wig? Or his trousers or his exquisitely-crafted boots? How would you figure that out? If he's wearing clothes that would cost $50,000 but he has absolutely no wealth he can use as an investment or as capital? The way GURPS prices those sorts of resources is to make you pay the sticker price. Unfortunately, the way to get the money also comes bundled with an increase in income, which our duke does not have.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
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12-10-2012, 09:32 PM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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In Terminator 2, Sarah Connor could have probably sold all those guns she was hoarding for enough to set herself up quite nicely, but instead chose to accept a modest income so that she could instead be prepared for the robot apocalypse. She could have sold them to American drug gangs for millions, or used them to establish a mercenary company and made millions propping up third-world dictators... that doesn't mean she had to. And it doesn't mean that having those very valuable assets (which in GURPS she would have needed to pay for somehow) meant that she had to spend thousands and thousand of dollars a month (a la Debt) to prevent some catastrophe related to them. They were hers. |
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12-10-2012, 10:24 PM | #37 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
I'd like to reiterate my suggestion of using the Headquarters rules from Supers for this purpose.
Effective Status gives you the size of your base or ship. (It's really a variant Signature Gear, the effective status just determines the size of the base.) Status -2 --Escape pod (a room) Status -1 --Small Shuttle (small apartment) Status 1 --Large Shuttle (comfortable house) Status 2 -- Small freighter / Millenium Falcon / Serenity (Large house) etc, all the way up to a Death Star at Status 8 Bases are Special Abilities, +50% to be in space. I would give it another +50% for mobile. You could then buy the components and labs, workshops, hidden compartments etc as perks. |
12-10-2012, 10:50 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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But, yeah, you can certainly justify something valuable that, even if in a pinch you could sell it off, wouldn't imply a Wealth level elevation.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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12-10-2012, 11:16 PM | #39 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
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If I want those clothes at character creation, I'm going to have to spend an awful lot of points to get them. When you have what is in all other ways a person of Average wealth trying to get a single item (or set of items), the pricing gets all screwy. If you want cash but don't want to increase your Wealth, you have to use the trading points for money rule, which makes it incredibly costly in terms of character points to get those clothes. Or anything else. If you want to be a peasant thief who was able to steal a very nice horse a while back, you're going to be paying more points than if you wanted to be the duke who owns a hundred such horses. The money rules are a jumble and they're not at all consistent. They're each priced radically different from one another, skewing the incentives in character creation away from the kinds of characters most often found in fiction. Which is pretty bad, since those are the same kinds of characters players often want to emulate, at least in my experience. It's even been a problem in DF, where Signature Gear gives out $500 per point. You have to get up to Very Wealthy to get a better deal than that. You don't ever see multiple party members taking lower Wealth levels, since it's just plain worse than Signature Gear. You either take Signature Gear or you take Very Wealthy. It's weird having multiple separate pricing schemes for the same thing in the same game. It requires the players to learn all these weird little nonintuitive quirks of the rules. Those weird quirks add up to making the game much more burdensome to learn.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics My blog. |
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12-11-2012, 05:30 AM | #40 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Gear rich, money poor
Wonder why nobody started with Signature Assets / Conditional Ownership. Of course, you still need to modify the income, but either of those solves the 'just sell it' issue.
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