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Old 03-21-2020, 11:34 AM   #31
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Can I create the illusion of a healing potion?

Illusion of a master physicker!
If the Master Physiker is a character known by the PCs then they can use those known skills. I think there's a reference to illusions of 'known people' in ITL somewhere. Otherwise it's just an illusion of a guy who looks like he *might* be a physiker. How you would create an illusion of a *master* physiker, I don't know...

also bear in mind it takes 5 minutes to physik someone, so your wizard will be pretty exhausted :)

I would probably House Rule that an illusion of a healing potion is fine, but to actually drink it the illusion would need to split into multiple parts as it flows out of the bottle. So that would dissolve the illusion as you started to drink it. Sorry! :)

Bearing that in mind, your Master Physiker might be a bit limited since he cannot apply lotions or bandages without them also being separate illusions!

Last edited by MikMod; 03-22-2020 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Closing more insane 'loopholes' which simply require the GM to do her job
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Old 03-22-2020, 12:20 AM   #32
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

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Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
Bearing that in mind, your Master Physiker might be a bit limited since he cannot apply lotions or bandages without them also being separate illusions!
Agreed. But then if there was a real Physicker's kit present, and if the illusion was of a real person known to (at least to the spell's caster) as a Physicker or Master Physicker, I'm pretty sure I'd allow that the illusion could treat the patient, stop the bleeding, apply the bandages that were already present, etc. as if the real physicker was present. But yes, for any illusion to demonstrate specialized knowledge or behavior it must be the illusion of a known person or creature that has those abilities. An illusion of "just anybody" should be able to open doors or untie a rope, but "just anybody" isn't allowed to do brain surgery.

And allowing that, I'd also have to allow an illusionary dragon to breathe fire. In this case it wouldn't even have to be a "known" dragon, because all dragons normally have the ability. It's not as strict a case as letting the illusionary Physicker apply bandages. (I cannot remember me or any of the three GMs in my old group ever disallowing dragon fire from an illusion, but it wouldn't have come up too often and I couldn't site a specific memory of it -- I just don't think any of us would have protested it.)

Back though to our "Emergency Medical Hologram" <g>. Maintaining the illusion for 5 minutes does cost 10 ST, so it won't be getting done too casually even if it can be afforded at all. I'd call it fair to prorate the treatment though: 3 minutes would be time enough for any Physicker to normally heal 1 ST, so I'd allow that too if anyone wanted to do it. The result could be a conscious companion who can now walk rather than having to be carried away.

If you prorate healing per minute for a a Master Physicker, it ought to be able to heal 1 hit in 20 turns or 2 hits in 40, so the illusion of a known one would "only" have to cost 4 ST or 8 ST to have that much treatment time respectively. Almost forgot! A Master Physicker can heal 1 hit with no kit given 5 minutes, but that's back to costing 10 ST again to maintain one the full 5 minutes.

This probably makes me sound easier-going than I actually am. I would be, and advise others to be, pretty strict about this "known person" business where all illusions are concerned. Handled correctly it should encourage good role-playing, but it shouldn't be abused as an easy out anytime there's a tight spot. A player saying, "Hey my character knew the town Physicker growing up!" ain't going to cut it. Nor would saying now, "My father/mother/brother/aunt was a Physicker" (or animal handler or astronomer or blacksmith) hold water unless it was already written into the PC's backstory. You can't just make these things up at the last second. But a really good story should be rewarded with a favorable ruling. "As my bio states, I went with Agamemnon to the Trojan War, it was years of fighting during which I saw the wounded bandaged every night by my tent-mate the Physicker so-and-so from such-and-such." Okay then, your illusion can be of so-and-so. And take 10 XP for creative thinking.

Giving illusions some extra latitude doesn't make me nearly as queasy as things like the new Creation spell "Meal". Stuff like that cheapens magic for me. I don't like it when players can circumvent the basic realities of planning, travel, and adventure logistics, which I see as worthwhile challenges that should get played out rather than be evaporated or solved with the click of the fingers or the wave of a wand. The mystery of magic exists in its contrast to the mundane, not in its replacement of the mundane.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:46 AM   #33
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

Illusion can't move real bandages around.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:17 AM   #34
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

I don't see how an illusory master physicker could really work, because the bandages are really supposed to stay on after the physicker finishes. If they disappear then I think at least a good chunk of the damage would come back.

The illusory jug of healing potion has the problem that healing potions don't really have a distinct appearance. Typically a jug of healing potion looks a lot like a jug of water. Illusions tend to use the "When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras," principle. So e.g. a myrmidon is normally a 24-point Melee character because the viewer isn't going to assume they are somehow special unless there's a good reason to do so. Now maybe Ondryth the Indispensable, primary provider of healing potions in these parts, puts a lavender ribbon round each bottle, and maybe that would persuade the drinker this was a real Ondryth potion. But you'd need to make an argument.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:46 AM   #35
MikMod
 
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

The psychological knot of forces that can physically affect those who are effectively part of the illusion by believing in it, cannot sadly affect inanimate objects, because they don't believe. So an existing Physiker kit would remain on the ground, unmoved.

If 'Boris the Master Physicker' started appearing repeatedly out of place, I might want the party to roll against IQ to refrain from disbelieving. In other words, roll under your IQ or accidentally blurt out 'but Boris can't be here!' And poof, he isn't.

If an illusion appears of a bottle exactly like the other ones on your belt, which must be clearly marked heal or you could make a rather awful mistake in the heat of battle and drink that acid bomb by mistake, then I think everyone around would simply 'see' it as a healing potion. But you would have to cast another illusion of the liquid inside as well, at least, if your GM allows flowing liquid illusions.

Also, the fact that you are muttering in Wizard Tongue and weaving sigils furiously might require the same kind of IQ roll to 'not-disbelieve' in Boris. This would give an edge to sorcerers who can cast without moving or speaking.

That's how I see it anyway :)

Last edited by MikMod; 03-22-2020 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:00 AM   #36
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
Almost forgot! A Master Physicker can heal 1 hit with no kit given 5 minutes, but that's back to costing 10 ST again to maintain one the full 5 minutes.
10 fatigue and a 5 minute pause to heal 1 ST, with the possibility that someone might accidentally disbelieve. I might be able to live with that.

It is a sweet idea after all.

Apart from making Wizards even more powerful :(
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #37
Terquem
 
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

Yes, but the hologram doctor must say, "State the nature of the medical emergency," before it can do anything else.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:59 AM   #38
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

While I understand the rationale behind illusions healing, I would not allow it in my games. I'd rather have a spell that speeds the natural healing process.
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Old 03-22-2020, 12:57 PM   #39
Terquem
 
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

I suppose it raises the quandary of if a figure can "choose to believe" an illusion when all reason should tell them otherwise.

Sure, you can create an illusion of a Physicker the figure knows, but why would the figure not disbelieve the illusion, wondering why is "Doctor Bob" here in the first place.

Last edited by Terquem; 03-22-2020 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 03-22-2020, 01:07 PM   #40
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Default Re: Melee/Wizard newbie question

Note that wizards must believe their own illusions, so all they need to carry is a maintain illusion item and the memory of their favorite doctor.
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