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Old 06-24-2019, 02:01 AM   #1
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Bonus Damage for High Strength

I saw a bunch of old TFT websites or house rules that had a rule that allowed you to do +1 damage per 2 points your Strength exceeded the Str minimum of a weapon (to a maximum of +3. The rationale was a) stronger people hit harder regardless of what they were using and b) it encouraged characters to stick with a weapon and not swap it for something bigger (especially going for a two handed weapon).

What do people think about this rule? I'm considering using it. Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

Last edited by Tywyll; 06-25-2019 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Edited in the Cap
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:10 AM   #2
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Sounds good, but how does it taper?

I imagine handing a broadsword to a lesser demon doesn't give him a (2d+19) attack?
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Old 06-24-2019, 02:26 AM   #3
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
I saw a bunch of old TFT websites or house rules that had a rule that allowed you to do +1 damage per 2 points your Strength exceeded the Str minimum of a weapon. The rationale was a) stronger people hit harder regardless of what they were using and b) it encouraged characters to stick with a weapon and not swap it for something bigger (especially going for a two handed weapon).

What do people think about this rule? I'm considering using it. Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
I used to do this but I'd only allow a +1 if you had 4 or more ST than the weapon required. Doing what you suggest has a problem for me in that it starts to muck up Average weapon damage and take away the value of double handed weapons, plus it makes thrown (and perhaps missile weapons too powerful.) examples:

Greatsword ST16 Damage 3+1 Range 4-19 Average 11.5 (2 handed)
Broadsword ST16 Damage 2+2 Range 4-14 Average 9
Hammer ST16 Damage 1+4 Range 5-9 Average 7.5 (can be thrown)

It's not my cup of tea, but obviously tastes vary.
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Old 06-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

I think it is a good idea, but that I advise studying the damages both for high ST and low ST with clubs and weapons (and yes, one-handed versus two-handed weapons), and figuring out how to get values you want.

As published (RAW), there are issues where clubs are as good or even better than weapons both at low ST and at high ST (we had another thread about this a while ago).

And Chris is right that if you make the adjustment too flat, then the two-handed weapons will only be giving +1 which starts to look insignificant.

The other thing I think ought to be done though is define some very-high-ST creatures as having only so much ST for purposes of hitting things. Otherwise their club damage will be evil. That their weapon damage with such a house rule would be even more evil is just a logical consequence, the real root of which is that demons have ST 50 or ST 100, which is ok for their ability to soak damage, but crazy for their ST-based damage.

The table I posted on the previous thread is here, but people tended to balk because it's a table and they didn't read/understand my fairly simple adjustments that led to it.

But for those with advanced study skills, the left section shows the RAW damages, with logic issues highlighted in yellow/orange/red where clubs get as good or better than weapons.

The green section was the result of my (actually fairly simple) suggestions in the other thread, which I don't have time to dig up a link to right now.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:01 PM   #5
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
The table I posted on the previous thread is here ...

The green section was the result of my (actually fairly simple) suggestions in the other thread, which I don't have time to dig up a link to right now.
This looks excellent!

But there are two green sections? One called Adjusted and one called Two Handed Tweak - what are the differences?
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:12 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

I've always used this as a house rule and continue to do so. Specifically:

+1 per FULL 2 points extra ST
Capped at double the nominal base damage of the weapon

Also, I retain the stricter original rules for fighting with a weapon for which you have insufficient ST. The revision (-1DX per point of deficit in ST) seems ludicrous to me - you end up being just as good as someone designed to use that weapon!
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:17 PM   #7
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
This looks excellent!

But there are two green sections? One called Adjusted and one called Two Handed Tweak - what are the differences?
The duller olive green section is what happens when you apply two changes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg's original post
1) The unarmed base damage has been reduced for ST 10 and lower, just enough to avoid logic violations where clubs are as good as weapons.

2) The weapon damages are adjusted by a house rule where for every 2 points more ST you have than a regular weapon requires, it does +1 damage. (This is simply the opposite of the -1 penalty for using a weapon without having its listed ST.) This allows weapon damages to remain better than clubs as ST increases.
The bright green table adds a tweak to maintain the advantage of two-handed weapons (and to convert some of the constant damage to dice), i.e.:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg's original post
when a one-handed weapon showed its second +4 value, I converted the +4 to +1d. When a two-handed weapon showed its second +3 value, I converted it to +1d.
The original post context (and additional discussion) are HERE.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:06 AM   #8
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikMod View Post
Sounds good, but how does it taper?

I imagine handing a broadsword to a lesser demon doesn't give him a (2d+19) attack?
Sorry, yes, it does cap... it's limit is +3 damage.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:19 AM   #9
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I used to do this but I'd only allow a +1 if you had 4 or more ST than the weapon required. Doing what you suggest has a problem for me in that it starts to muck up Average weapon damage and take away the value of double handed weapons, plus it makes thrown (and perhaps missile weapons too powerful.) examples:

Greatsword ST16 Damage 3+1 Range 4-19 Average 11.5 (2 handed)
Broadsword ST16 Damage 2+2 Range 4-14 Average 9
Hammer ST16 Damage 1+4 Range 5-9 Average 7.5 (can be thrown)

It's not my cup of tea, but obviously tastes vary.
I'm not following exactly? What is the concern? Those weapons still do higher averages and maximums.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:46 AM   #10
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Bonus Damage for High Strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
I'm not following exactly? What is the concern? Those weapons still do higher averages and maximums.

The concern is a simple one: it takes away the balance and clear differentiation of the original weapon table.

In the case of Broadsword v Greatsword; why would you waste your time with a greatsword which takes up both of your hands, when you could use a broadsword which now does 4-14 (av. 9 Damage) and have a shield or second weapon in the other hand. Previously the difference was 2-12 BS and 4-19 GS.

In the case of the Hammer; you now have a thrown weapon which does 4-9 damage, much more than any other thrown weapon.

Don't get me wrong, I've tinkered with this in the past, but all it ultimately does is tend to make every weapon more similar in damage capacity and related much more to ST level.

If you want a system in which damage done is directly based on ST with modifiers for weapon, I'm sure they're out there, but that's not the way TFT works. TFT works by allowing you to choose a particular weapon, with a particular damage range, at a particular ST level.

It also means you have a fair idea of the threat you face in an opponent by the weapons they are carrying. Once you allow ST bonuses, that is much less clear.

Still, it depends on what sort of game you want.
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