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Old 06-09-2019, 07:04 PM   #91
Icelander
 
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Default Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

Uh... if, in the course of defending himself and others, a Reserve Deputy of the Galveston County Sheriff's Office should have... decapitated two people, a bit, with his heirloom shortsword-sized Bowie knife, how are the responding officers going to deal with that?

Asking for a friend.

The scene has two dead officers of the Galveston PD, one dead Sergeant Deputy of the GCSO, one dead EMT, one EMT-Paramedic in critical condition, one Galveston PD officer conscious, in a bit of a shock, bleeding from her face and covered in glass fragments, and one GSCO deputy unconscious with multiple gunshot wounds. There are several dead suspects, two or three wounded ones under arrest.

And there is a Sergeant of the Galveston PD there arresting surviving sicarios and attesting that these Reserve Deputies saved his life and that of these wounded.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:10 PM   #92
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Uh... if, in the course of defending himself and others, a Reserve Deputy of the Galveston County Sheriff's Office should have... decapitated two people, a bit, with his heirloom shortsword-sized Bowie knife, how are the responding officers going to deal with that?
As long as there is one real cop to vouch for it they aren't going to do anything but warn the upper echeclons that the press on this incident is going to be a little tricky to manage.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:24 PM   #93
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Uh... if, in the course of defending himself and others, a Reserve Deputy of the Galveston County Sheriff's Office should have... decapitated two people, a bit, with his heirloom shortsword-sized Bowie knife, how are the responding officers going to deal with that?
....
And there is a Sergeant of the Galveston PD there arresting surviving sicarios and attesting that these two Reserve Deputies saved his life and that of these wounded.
The press might find the knife aspect interesting, but legally speaking it's not particularly different from pulling out a gun and shooting them. Which, under the described conditions, is legal. Now, there may be authorities and/or media wondering what's up with these 'reserve deputies' and investigating, but that's mostly a problem if the PCs have been engaging in illegal behavior (or otherwise in need of concealment) that no-one was previously noticing, it doesn't directly affect this situation.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:31 PM   #94
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
As long as there is one real cop to vouch for it they aren't going to do anything but warn the upper echeclons that the press on this incident is going to be a little tricky to manage.
The first decapitation was totally legitimate. If there was a shooting board for Bowie knife decapitations, he'd pass with flying colours. In the same second, one PC gutshot the one they call Igor with a 255 grain .45 LC round from a Colt SAA revolver, one PC shot him in the side of the head with a 62 grain 5.56x45mm Mk318 SOST round and the PC with a LeMat revolver in one hand and a Bowie knife in the other gave Igor a face full of nine grapeshot at five feet. The second after, as Igor staggered and dropped his M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle, the enthusiastic PC made an All-out Attack (Strong) for a perfect decapitation.

At most, they could maybe quibble with the salt and holy water sprinkled over the body.

No, the second decapitation was far more problematic. That was a guy with shotgun pellets in both arms and the chest, as well as a .460 S&W round in the chest. Finally, a .42 ball from a LeMat in his skull. All weapons carried by Reserve Deputy Lucien Lacoste. And the suspect was decapitated post mortem, with two powerful blows after positioning the body right, about twenty seconds after the first shots hit him, and a few seconds after he was instantly killed with the archaic revolver ball from a distance of ten feet, while lying on his back.

You see, Lacoste was worried his soul was suffering and wanted to see if cutting off the head might release it.
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:55 PM   #95
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The first decapitation was totally legitimate. If there was a shooting board for Bowie knife decapitations, he'd pass with flying colours. In the same second, one PC gutshot the one they call Igor with a 255 grain .45 LC round from a Colt SAA revolver, one PC shot him in the side of the head with a 62 grain 5.56x45mm Mk318 SOST round and the PC with a LeMat revolver in one hand and a Bowie knife in the other gave Igor a face full of nine grapeshot at five feet. The second after, as Igor staggered and dropped his M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle, the enthusiastic PC made an All-out Attack (Strong) for a perfect decapitation.

At most, they could maybe quibble with the salt and holy water sprinkled over the body.

No, the second decapitation was far more problematic. That was a guy with shotgun pellets in both arms and the chest, as well as a .460 S&W round in the chest. Finally, a .42 ball from a LeMat in his skull. All weapons carried by Reserve Deputy Lucien Lacoste. And the suspect was decapitated post mortem, with two powerful blows after positioning the body right, about twenty seconds after the first shots hit him, and a few seconds after he was instantly killed with the archaic revolver ball from a distance of ten feet, while lying on his back.

You see, Lacoste was worried his soul was suffering and wanted to see if cutting off the head might release it.
Lacoste is going to be sent to Therapy, at the least, I would think.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:32 PM   #96
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The press might find the knife aspect interesting, but legally speaking it's not particularly different from pulling out a gun and shooting them. Which, under the described conditions, is legal. Now, there may be authorities and/or media wondering what's up with these 'reserve deputies' and investigating, but that's mostly a problem if the PCs have been engaging in illegal behavior (or otherwise in need of concealment) that no-one was previously noticing, it doesn't directly affect this situation.
Well, Lucien Lacoste is a respected cop from Louisiana, a former Detective Sergeant from the Homicide Section / CID of New Orleans PD. After being seriously wounded on duty two years before, Lacoste retired. Actually, no one expected him to survive. When he recovered faster and more completely than anyone expected, Lacoste took a security consultant job with Sentinel Risk Managment Inc. in Galveston, but also got certified as Texas peace officer by TCOLE and is voluteering a few days a month for local law enforcement, including teaching interview techniques and working a few cold cases for the Galveston County Sheriff's Office.

Lacoste is very much a 'real cop' from the perspective of the local deputies, even if he's not working full-time with them. Four levels of 'Natural Copper' Talent, two levels of 'Tough Guy' Talent, Reputation +2 as a highly decorated officer and brilliant detective from NOPD and Savoir-Faire (Police) at 20+ means that Lacoste almost always meets with professional courtesy, even admiration (which can sometimes reach adulation) from working cops.

On the other hand, Impulsive, Overconfidence and On the Edge are the sort of Disadvantages that make bosses regret allowing even the most brilliant detective they can imagine to carry their badge.

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Lacoste is going to be sent to Therapy, at the least, I would think.
Which he very much needs. The deadly coctail of Disadvantages he has are pretty classic signs of survivor's guilt (his partner died in the shooting Lacoste survived) and Lacoste also might be suffering from PTSD. The fact that he actually does see spirits doesn't help.

Of course, Sergeant Wendell 'Buddy' Duke of the Galveston PD, who saw everything, is going to back Lacoste to the hilt. Sergeant Duke realizes that the mundane authorities don't know about or understand the threats that are out there and that local billionaire J.R. Kessler employs experts to defend Texas (America too, he guesses) from the unfathomable. Duke isn't sure exactly what the rules are, but he's definitely on the side of humanity and strongly opposes witches, vampires, werewolves and any and all such creepy critters.

So, if Lucien Lacoste, in the course of his secret duties as defender of Texas (the US and the World) felt he had to cut off the heads of some monsters that looked like human beings, Sergeant Duke is pretty sure it was in everyone's interest that these heads were removed. After all, if Mr. Kessler wants something done, it's for a damn good reason.

Sergeant Duke is therefore working off the theory that the two suspects decapitated by Reserve Deputy Lacoste were vampires. Maybe zombies, if there is such a thing as zombies. Evil Dead, of some kind, at least. So he'll swear until he's blue in the face that Lacoste shot at them while they came for him, armed and angry, and only during a close quarter confrontation did the suspects suffer knife wounds that resulted in the massive neck trauma seen. Yessir, both suspects posed a clear danger to Reserve Deputy Lacoste and others when he used the knife, his other weapon being grappled.

The fact that the one Lacoste deliberately decapitated after he shot him multiple times was a perfectly ordinary (if unpleasant) man is not, perhaps, something that Sergeant Duke needs to know. And the official report will be full of phrases like 'In fear of my life' and if possible entirely devoid of any references to souls, spiritual barbed wire, ghost warnings and magic mushrooms. Lacoste is going to play it cool and try to pretend he's not having a really bad trip.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:19 AM   #97
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Th as Igor staggered and dropped his M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle,
This pretty much covers everything. That's if the Feds don't "national security" everything. Neither the locals nor the Feds are going to be able to distinguish your sicarios from "real" terrorists if they were even interested in trying.

Mr Bowie Knife might even get a medal for "intense hand-to-hand combat with heavily armed terrorists.".
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:42 AM   #98
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
This pretty much covers everything. That's if the Feds don't "national security" everything. Neither the locals nor the Feds are going to be able to distinguish your sicarios from "real" terrorists if they were even interested in trying.

Mr Bowie Knife might even get a medal for "intense hand-to-hand combat with heavily armed terrorists.".
There is that, yes. It's going to help Lacoste quite a bit that the two suspects he shot and then decapitated can both be tied to pretty serious crimes and had, in fact, both killed cops moments before Lacoste shot them.

'Igor' is a suspect in six murders and a kidnapping. Before Lacoste engaged him, 'Igor' had fatally shot EMT Anne Marie Roth and Officer Keontay Washington of the Galveston PD, both with an M82A1 CQ .50 BMG rifle.

The other man was carrying a LWRCI IC-SPR 5.56x45mm rifle with a digital NV scope. Before being engaged, the suspect had just killed Sergeant Deputy Bob Higgins of the Galveston County Sheriff's Office and was currently firing at Reserve Deputy Lacoste. The sicario fell down upon taking hits from Lacoste, who then focused on 'Igor', at that moment bringing to bear his anti-materiel rifle.

After Lacoste had killed 'Igor' (with assistance from the other PCs) and liberated his soul from torment, however, he realized that the sicario he wounded earlier was still conscious and while lying on his back had drawn a SIG P320 Carry 9x19mm pistol, with which he was taking aim at a civilian present at the scene. So Lacoste shot the sicario again, this time through the cerebellum, using his antigue LeMat revolver at ten feet.

It was after that, however, that Lacoste went a bit funny and cut off the head of the clearly dead sicario. While chanting in Latin.

However, depending on whether any of the surviving sicarios talk, it might be revealed that the one Lacoste decapitated is known as 'Morena' and is a famous contract killer said to have committed more than sixty murders. While that might be mere underworld legend, the fact is that 'Morena' is wanted for questioning in Bolivia for six murders and in Brazil for a triple homicide.

In terms of a shooting review, Reserve Deputy Teddy Smith might actually deserve more censure. His shooting of a sicario armed with a LWRCI R.E.P.R. MkII .308 Win rifle moments after that suspect had killed officer Sam. H. Talley of the Galveston PD and while the suspect was firing at the vehicle Reserve Deputy Smith was leaning out of, was unquestionably legit. However, the second man Smith shot was Tomás Alvarez of Dallas, licensed PI and security consultant for Katari Security Inc.

Mr. Alvarez was armed with a crowbar previously, which he had thrown away by the time Smith shot him, and no visible weapon was in Mr. Alvarez's hands or within easy reach. What Mr. Alvarez was doing at the time he was shot was backing his vehicle away from the scene, which an attorney will argue is a pretty normal response by an ordinary person to coming upon a firefight in process right in front of them.

However, closer investigation will probably implicate Mr. Alvarez pretty heavily, as not only did he have a passenger in his vehicle armed with a LWRCI IC-SPR 5.56x45mm rifle (while unfired, bought at the same store by the same straw purchaser as the identical rifle used to murder Sergeant Deputy Higgins), but he himself was also carrying a concealed S&W M&P9c M2.0 9x19mm pistol bought by that same straw purchaser. Mr. Alvarez had a CHL and could have bought any number of firearms legally, but the straw purchase is in itself still a crime.

So, Mr. Tomás Alvarez was clearly guilty of all sorts of aiding and abetting, as well as acting as a driver in the ambush. The fact remains, however, that at no point did he draw a weapon, threaten anyone or seem likely to pose a danger to anyone. He was shot in the head with a .577 Tyrannosaur round to stop the vehicle he was driving and thus prevent his passenger from escaping.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:11 PM   #99
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Default Re: Acceptable Self-Defense, Limits, Decapitations

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Reserve Deputy Lacoste … Reserve Deputy Teddy Smith
What were the other PCs up to, and is Galveston Island sinking?
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #100
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What were the other PCs up to, and is Galveston Island sinking?
Well, 'Nonc' Morel (PC) was unable to convince Sergeant Duke to allow him to ride with the officers in a Galveston PD vehicle to follow the convoy. Reserve Deputy Lucien Lacoste (PC), however, who'd talked Sergeant Duke* into the idea that this 'Gwen Delvano' was a dangerous witch and might summon demons or something equally undesirable, was allowed to ride along with Duke and his partner, Officer Keontay Washington.

Before Lacoste left, he managed to convey in subtle Gestures that Reserve Deputy Teddy Smith (PC) should follow them and that 'Nonc' Morel should get in the car with Teddy. Actually, the Gestures Lacoste made toward Morel consisted mostly of grotesque faces (rolled 16), but it was the intent that counted and, in any case, Morel could read the situation.

Teddy Smith declined to attempt Driving while high on hallucinogenic mushrooms and having been subjectively awake for a week or so.** Fortunately, Bo Johnson, their fellow Monster Hunter and also a Reserve Deputy in the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office, was available to drive. So the three Monster Hunters followed the Galveston PD cruiser with Sergeant Duke, Officer Washington and Reserve Deputy Lacoste.

The ambulance, which left before them, was escorted by two vehicles, one from each department. Officer Midge Dugger of the Galveston PD was in the back of the ambulance with the suspect while Officer Sam H. Talley drove their cruiser behind the ambo. Following along were Sergeant Deputy Bob Higgins and Deputy Ana Esperza De La Cruz of the GCSO, not so much as added security as they were there to maintain GCSO's equal claim to the suspect, if and when she could give statements on record.

Alice Talbot (PC) remained behind aboard Penemue, clad in pajamas, eating ice cream and talking to Detectives Cartwright and Kelly. When the shots rang out and the detectives run out cursing, Alice must have stayed where she was. As it happened, Alice's player was playing something that participated in the incident, as six sicarios were killed or critically wounded in gruesome, but stealthy ways, with no other PC catching even a glimpse of whatever killed them.

It's interesting that you should ask about the state of Galveston Island, however, as (possibly related to whatever killed six armed men without anyone seeing it), Alice's player starts next session with a Very Important Dice Roll, one that might determine whether Galveston joins Innsmouth, Commoriom, Sarnath, Simorgya, Atlantis or R'yleh in the pantheon of places spoken of only in hushed whisphers.

*Sergeant Duke is one of Kessler's strongest supporters within the Galveston PD and crucially, understands that mundane crime is not the only threat to citizens. So a brief private chat convinced Duke that the officers taking the suspect to hospital might be in danger and that Lacoste had gifts that might protect them.
**PCs... they'll cheerfully assume risks that no sane person would, but occasionally, when the players recognise something as a bad idea in real world terms, inject a strange note of caution. For example, driving while impaired, obviously Not On. Hanging out a window in a swerving car, holding on with the legs, while shooting at muzzle flashes over the roof, every bit as impaired... seems fine.
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