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Old 04-15-2019, 07:40 AM   #21
oldwolf
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

I don't see why that last one isn't 6

Oh, never mind, figured it out.

Last edited by oldwolf; 04-15-2019 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Saw the light.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:40 PM   #22
JLV
 
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Under the current rules:

14 hex dragon with Running which is carrying 10xST (five lightly armored humans) has flying MA 6.
What does "Running" have to do with flying?
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:27 AM   #23
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by Charles G. View Post
Because the game will lack verisimilitude?
This is a compelling point to me, if not to everyone.

One of TFT's main strengths to me was always that the rules seemed to mostly make sense and play out such as one might expect them to, so it's like a game about the situation, more than many other RPGs which seem to be more about their own artificial abstract constructs.


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I should venture to say that if such a plot element were important to two of the greatest fantasy writers of all time, it ought to be more than good enough for you, wouldn't you agree?
On this, not so much, because I think players should play what they want, and not all GMs are up to running a game well that involves a lot of fatigue management as a major element of play.

But by the same token, some are, and as far as that goes, I do take your point and agree that for some GMs, fatigue can be an important and interesting element of play.

In The Labyrinth in fact does mention that fatigue can also be incurred by physical exertion. (e.g. Page 10 under Fatigue: "Any figure can also suffer fatigue from running too far too fast, from trying some great feat of strength, etc.") However, it then doesn't provide rules or even guidelines for fatigue except in a few cases, leaving out some the main things adventurers do: hike overland, fight, and run around. So the GM is left to extrapolate some house rules from the examples there are (e.g. mining, berserking).

For a GM capable of running a good game with routine fatigue as an element of play, I expect most could also improvise some decent house rules for it, as TFT is pretty simple, and it doesn't have to be very complex.

There's also GURPS whose fatigue rules could be borrowed readily, as attributes are about on the same ("10 is average") scale, and it does have fairly simple rules/guidlines for how much fatigue is used hiking, running, fighting, etc.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:56 AM   #24
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Originally Posted by Charles G. View Post
Because the game will lack verisimilitude?

…{snip}…

I should venture to say that if such a plot element were important to two of the greatest fantasy writers of all time, it ought to be more than good enough for you, wouldn't you agree?
(…?) You must not have seen my comments elsewhere on the subject of Fatigue.

I was not suggesting that Fatigue does not matter. I was obliquely calling attention to the fact that it supposedly does matter, but nearly no rules exist to demonstrate it.

Running is a perfect example. It obviously calls for some kind of Fatigue rule, but no such rule is given.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Regarding all the discussion on endurance and the excellent example of its importance in storytelling with R.E. Howard's The Frost Giants Daughter.

I think it is futile to hope a simple game or even a super complex game run by a near sentient AI could produce such a tale. However, the tools for a GM to do so are there in TFT. A series of ST roles against slowly increasing odds, interspersed with description and dialogue between player and GM. The gradual reduction of ST in its alternate role of fatigue/endurance making each roll more critical. The final collapse into unconsciousness as the player having won the contest is stunned when Atali's father Yimir saves her at the last second. It's all there but left to the GM to apply as they see fit so it does not burden the game when its consideration would not add to story.

So, IMHO, endurance matters when it affects the story and that is best handled by the GM.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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… So, IMHO, endurance matters when it affects the story and that is best handled by the GM.
I agree. And I can easily ignore Fatigue, or any other Rule I don't like, whenever I decide it's not relevant.

But when I decide it IS relevant, it would be awfully convenient if there were already a Rule for me to follow (or ignore), instead of making up my own.

Much like Guns, it's better to have a Rule and not need it, than to need one and not have it.



Afterthought: Incidentally, I do understand that TFT is intended to be simple, and that excess 'granularity' isn't generally desirable, and I'm totally fine with that. (That's why there's an "I Want It All" box sitting twelve feet to my right.)

However… in my RPG experience, running is a really common occurrence. Especially running while wounded (aka: low on Health / ST / Fatigue points / Whatever), and trying to avoid dying. That doesn't seem like a rare event at all, to me. Just sayin'. :)

Last edited by FireHorse; 04-16-2019 at 06:35 AM. Reason: Afterthought
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Old 04-16-2019, 01:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

Well, I can't complain about being misunderstood when I was deliberately being facetious. :)

And I agree, I prefer a balance of both Fantasy and Realism enough of the former to be interesting, but enough of the latter to be at least somewhat plausible. As entertaining as the visualization might be, I don't want to swing my great sword and roll 2d6 to see how many of the goblins I cleave in half with a single stroke.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

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Not to speak for the author of that post, but it does occur to me that running and flying are both going to require physical exertion; thus, the notion that "Running" could apply to a flyer that is, well, flying, does not hurt my head as much as it ought.
Erm...maybe that should be a similar talent called "Flying," or maybe "Long-Distance Flying?"

Seriously, I'm actually thinking that leg muscles (and your wind) get the workout when running, whereas a completely different set of muscles (and your wind, again, I would imagine) get the workout when flying -- or so it seems to me, never having engaged in any "self-powered" flight myself. (Nor, alas, am I an ornithologist, though I would cheerfully defer to anyone who is!)
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:11 AM   #29
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

I'm not sure we are supposed to directly connect MA in combat to the rate of overland travel. There are specific rules already in the game stipulating how fast dragons and such fly when free to move across open space (I don't recall the numbers off hand but they are big).

Anyway, I take the MA base rates and adjustments to be a gamist sort of concept. I always thought the obvious thing to do was base your MA on your base DX minus armor and weight-carried penalties. But, I don't like house rules that land me in more or less the same place I started (but with the added penalty that I'm now playing a game that doesn't work like the game other people are playing). So I've concluded this one is a case where RAW is fine.
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Running Talent in Legacy Edition

So the Running talent is "Sprinting to the next foxhole with a full combat load" and not "Jogging in plate armor"?
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