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Old 06-16-2018, 12:10 PM   #21
Shostak
 
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Wow, is that bad illustration. I won't use the word "art" for it.

The Wizard and (possible) Melee covers scream out that this product is juvenile and amateur, which is too bad, since TFT is anything but those.

I guess I'd best get cracking on my own designs to replace the stock covers, because there is no way that I'm going so subject myself or others to these awful designs.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:21 PM   #22
CJM
 
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I like and have always liked the games that SJ produces.Munchkins is a good example of a great game system coupled with art that fits the game perfectly. TFT is another example of a game that the Art is a nice fit. Gurps has never had good art, in all it's editions, it's just bland in my opinion. I hope SJ games doesn't make that mistake again. My suggestion is to go with someone new and get that right fit....you could even put it up to a vote on the forums if you would like. I have seen great art on many a game box that made me interested in the game, but I think this art does not inspire a purchase. When someone new walks by it on the shelve in some store it needs to catch the eye, and what we have seen so far has not. I really want to see this new edition succeed and I believe you will need top notch art to do so. Old players you will always have as customers (me), but we need new blood, I want my kids to want to play it, and they look at the cover first;-) I would be willing to pay a little more for better art.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:55 PM   #23
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I don't like it, either.

The roman is a poor choice for fantasy, because it's temporally and geographically pretty specific.

The roman presented also is not compelling.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:58 PM   #24
larsdangly
 
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I'm not going to make a stink about it either way; they are trying their best and making aesthetic judgement calls that not everyone will agree with. But I will say that I'd really like it if they could make a closer connection to the simple but outstandingly artwork in the originals. It is hard to describe what makes something cool, but you know it when you see it, and a ton of the original TFT art was cool. I understand it can't be re used for IP reasons, but there are plenty of artists out there would could create new works that have this sort of feel.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:30 PM   #25
CJM
 
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I don't think people are being too critical...they just want it to succeed so badly that they want it to be perfect...me too. I do know that when my kids look at the 5e covers they want to play that game, I just want the same reaction from the greatest RPG I have know...TFT. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be different then 5e, Pathfinder. But if we don't express what we think how can we help Steve and the crew?
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:51 PM   #26
tbeard1999
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJM View Post
I don't think people are being too critical...they just want it to succeed so badly that they want it to be perfect...me too. I do know that when my kids look at the 5e covers they want to play that game, I just want the same reaction from the greatest RPG I have know...TFT. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be different then 5e, Pathfinder. But if we don't express what we think how can we help Steve and the crew?
I think that the comments, while generally not positive, have been expressed constructively. We all want TFT to be a hit, after all. I imagine I speak for most of us when I say that the choice of artwork is irrelevant to my purchase decision - Iím in and thatís that. I just think that evocative artwork significantly enhances the likelihood of someone buying it in a game store. Of course, it could be the case that most TFT sales will be made through the Kickstarter (?). Maybe the art doesnít matter so much in that context. In any case, the proposed price point for TFT is ridiculously low. I hope that SJG understands that we appreciate that.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:18 PM   #27
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One of my all-time favorite pieces of gaming artwork is the one by Pat Hidy on the title page of Death Test. That captures the imagination.

I kinda figure Melee and Wizard are games about arena combat, and that the art should probably reflect that.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:12 PM   #28
Dave Crowell
 
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To be honest this cover says "Boring, amateur, historical (skirmish?) wargame" to me. With a name like "The Fantasy Trip" I want to see some fantasy in the image. Melee should suggest combat.

The Wizard cover was a little blah, but not objectionable. This cover I would not pick up in the store.

I hate to be so negative, but I want the TFT relaunch to succeed.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #29
Jim Kane
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How critically important is this question of the *new* TFT art?

It just dawned on me the whole thing started with the original OGRE game back in 1977... and was inspired by *one little piece of imaginatively powerful art* - that spoke volumes to a young Steve Jackson...

And here we all are today because of that piece of art.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
I think that the comments, while generally not positive, have been expressed constructively. We all want TFT to be a hit, after all. I imagine I speak for most of us when I say that the choice of artwork is irrelevant to my purchase decision - I’m in and that’s that. I just think that evocative artwork significantly enhances the likelihood of someone buying it in a game store. Of course, it could be the case that most TFT sales will be made through the Kickstarter (?). Maybe the art doesn’t matter so much in that context. In any case, the proposed price point for TFT is ridiculously low. I hope that SJG understands that we appreciate that.
I would rather SJG simply raise the price-point and put some serious effort into getting the art on this thing *right*; for as you say, "we want TFT to be a hit" - so there is a future beyond a Kickstarter. But no, my friend Ty, you do not speak for me in this case, as I *will not* finance nor subscribe to the desecration of the image of TFT with inappropriate artwork or logos.

Anything in life worth doing is worth doing right; plain as that.

This is especially so when it comes to *this very important thing*, and what The Fantasy Trip has meant to me for 41 years of my life. Sorry it goes against my all my personal principles and my heart.

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
...my own designs to replace the stock covers, because there is no way that I'm going so subject myself or others to these awful designs.
That is a *very* interesting comment Shostak. Your comment makes me wonder what the average person - over the emotional/mental age of 10 - would feel like, taking either of the *new* Wizard or Melee games up to the counter at store for purchase, while sporting the artwork we have seen thus far... And I wonder how many adult-aged people would resist purchasing a copy - either feeling it is aimed at children, or they would just feel like a total goof, holding such cartoonish things in their hand at the register.

I cannot (read: will not) see myself - a die-hard, life-long, TFT loyalist - conducting Teach-In sessions and product-promos at my local area Game-store and Comic book shops, while holding up a product that presents like all we have seen thus far.

I could only imagine how many times I would have to say: "look forget the cover-art, it's what's inside that counts... " - to deaf ears and rolling eyes.

Where would the average employee at Barnes & Nobles Booksellers place this product on shelves? Next to D&D? Better not! Art like what we have seen will just help sell more D&D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJM View Post
... I think this art does not inspire a purchase.
And *there* is the single most damning assessment of the *new* art and logos thus far in terms of it's impact the *business* of The Fantasy Trip securing a viable market-position for any meaningful duration.

Can you imagine... artwork for a product line that fails to inspire interest that translates into sales, *and*, with the potential to alienate the long-term established customer base... it's beyond surreal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
...they are trying their best and making aesthetic judgement calls that not everyone will agree with.
Lars, my dear friend, I see it the other way. To my eye and sensibilities, it's seems that whomever it is that is *directing* and approving the art and logos, either: a) knows nothing of the spirit of this game, or b) truly doesn't care about this game, OR, most likely c) is purposefully trying to completely alter it's inherent vibe to something else; for some reason totally unknown to us.

I suspect (c) is the case; and I pray it is not (a) or (b).

So, no sir; unless this is purposeful - it seems like the art-end of this product is being given the absolute least amount of effort possible in capturing the all-important spirit imbued inside this game.

*In fact, it actually seems effort is going into doing just the opposite.*

And if there is no single art-person in-house - or on the free-lancers roster - who has the correct vision, or can take art-direction and render this to an acceptable level, well, the University of Texas has plenty of art students in their MFA program, where I would be surprised if SJ could not find *one*, who would not jump at the chance to do a few painting on a work-for-hire basis.

So the question becomes: *Who* is making these judgement calls? If it is SJ himself, well he should share with us what he is attempting to do philosophically, and where he intends on going with this *new* look and presentation, when they lay this stuff on us for getting our feedback.

That seems like a more than reasonable exchange for our valuable feedback which he cannot get elsewhere.

And if it is *someone else* who is making these judgement calls regarding TFT, who is not SJ, my only question is not "who", but: *Why*?

Because when it comes to the *new* art and logos, obviously this is a case of: "Houston,... I mean,.. Austin,... we have a problem here..."

JK

PS - Ace paperback book publishers (REH's Conan) would constantly jangle Frank Frazetta's phone begging him for more art, and would tell him they didn't care what he had available for a book cover, they would have an author write a story around the artwork, because they knew the correct art guaranteed a sell-thru - regardless of what was between the covers, or who wrote it.

PPS - And yes, I know the thing says: *Not Final Art* - well, the fact is, that thing is out there with the TFT name on it, published on the internet and people are seeing it, and they are commenting about the bad art; scroll down on that article where it comes from and read. Sorry, this is no way to make a first impression after a 35+ year absence; nor how to properly represent the product.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 06-16-2018 at 06:58 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:32 PM   #30
CJM
 
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Default Re: Melee Cover Preview

Yep...more like Frank Frazetta's work, might have to put a bit more clothing on the Ladies...I mean this is a PG-13 game...but the style is right. When I look at the art of TFT what is it telling me?
* Adventure (exploration, dicovery)
*Athletic (In shape as a warrior should be, would have to be)
*Struggle (Brutal Combat against evil foes)
*Triumph over those evil foes (Be a hero)
* Sorcery (mystery)
I'm sorry but that centurion looks like a middle aged... overweight... guy that stuffed himself into a Halloween costume, and had just eaten something funky from a street vendor on a hot day. If I wanted to see that I would go get a centurion costume. I might be exaggerating a little.... but you get my meaning. Maybe this group should express the feeling they get from the art in TFT so as the SJ team has an idea on what to tell the artist. What we are looking for...the feel the art gives the game? Anyway just trying to brain storm here...
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