Getting shot by an arrow - leave it or take it out?

[hal]

Originally Posted by Tema69

So, I've been watching a bit much Apocalypto recently, and I wondered how you'd model being hit by an arrow? Pulling it out, breaking the shaft, all that jazz...

...it's mainly for a single PC in my game to whom I'm gonna give a bow, so it doesn't matter if it's a bit complicated...

Thanks,

Thomas

Hello Thomas,
Having read the thread to its conclusion, I'm not sure if this is an answer you would want to bother with, but...

page 223 of GURPS CHARACTERS has this to say about surgery...

Modifiers: Equipment modifiers (p. 345); physiology modifiers (p. 181);
-3 if the area or equipment cannot be properly cleaned and sterilized; -3 for
head or chest surgery; -5 for undiagnosed problems. If you lack Physician
skill, you are at -5 to do anything but “field-expedient” surgery (e.g., stitch
wounds or extract arrowheads, bullets, and shrapnel).


So, lets look at the rules suggested above (and later on page 424) and see where it takes us. In the scenario below, the situation is that of an NPC archer firing a longbow arrow (doing 1d+2 damage) at a player character with ST 12, HT 11. The player character companion(s) have at best, an IQ of 12 amongst them all. None of any medical training save that of simple first aid, and the nearest physician is some 4 day's journey away.

Player character is wearing mail armor on his torso, which is where the GM rules he is shot. The GM did not detail that the shot to the torso was an aimed shot for the vitals, but being a sadistic GM, the GM has decided to utilize the rules on page 137 for GURPS MARTIAL ARTS under NOTES FOR EXISTING HIT LOCATIONS (where a torso hit may hit the vitals on a roll of a 1 on 1d6). Rolling a 4, the GM informs the player that his character was NOT hit in the vitals with the arrow. Whewing in relief, the player waits anxiously as the GM rolls for damage outright. With semi-shocked disbelief, he watches as the GM rolls hot and gets a 6 on the damage roll. Plus 2, and the total damage is 8. The player has never had to deal with the gritty GURPS rules in the past, is in for a minor shock with this GM because...

8 points of damage from the arrow versus DR 4 results in 4 points of damage to the torso. Doubled because it is an impaling attack, the player figures "What's 8 points, I've got 12 hit points - I'm not even slowed to half movement with that shot!". Then the GM smiles wickedly saying "Ok, a major wound by definition is one in which damage in excess of 1/2 your Hit points is inflicted in a single blow (see page 381). The GM informs the player "roll versus your HT or be stunned and knocked down". Unfortunately for the player, he rolls a 16 with an 11 HT - a failure by 5+. Per the rules, he falls unconscious from his arrow wound.

(continued in act II)

[hal]

Act II

The player character awakens after the battle is over, and the NPC's are gathered around the fallen warrior with an arrow protruding from his chest. The GM is smiling wayyyy too much, and the player thinks he (the GM) is trying to be funny.

GM: "The first buddy of yours says that we should push the arrow through the torso and extract it that way. The second buddy says that we should leave it in the body and carry your character back to the nearest physician some 4 days journey away. Yet another votes to yank the arrow out expressing the opinion that it won't do that much damage coming out. What's your vote in this matter. No matter what you choose, it is going to be VERY painful for your character."

The player says "I vote to have it removed thankyouverymuch!"

Sighing, the GM - conversant with the surgery rules from GURPS, says "Ok, your funeral." Squirming, the player begins to realize that perhaps there is more to this situation than meets the eye. He becomes worried when the GM pulls out the book and reads the relevant sections saying...

Hmmm. Under surgery on page 424, Basic equipment gives -5 at Tech levels 2 and or 3, which this is for the campaign. Since you don't have the basic surgeons kit, but your buddies do have knives, I'll treat that as improvised basic equipment at -1 to skill for poor quality (just trying to be nice here, as the rules specify that better quality basic kit gives a bonus to skill rolls, I'll just use poor quality giving a -1). Any surgery to the torso incurs a further -3 penalty to the surgeon's skill roll. So now we're at skill minus um... lets see, -1 and -5 is -6, with an additional -3 is -9. Yup. Minus nine. Reading further, I find that since none of the npc characters have surgery as a skill, the smartest of the lot with an IQ of 12, has a default surgery skill value of 12-5 or 7. Not good. (the player yelps at this assessment)

Ok, but on page 223, field expedient surgery includes removing arrows and stitching wounds. (note: does this mean that one can do arrow removal at IQ-5 without a further -5 penalty, or does it mean that there is no IQ-5 penalty to the skill due to default skill use?)

So - where were we? Skill minus 9. Versus IQ-5 or 12-5 being a default surgery skill of 7.

Per the rules page 223, a failed surgery roll can inflict up to 3d6 damage, or 2d6 damage if it is an amputation. That simple arrow extraction went from doing 1/2 damage being pulled out, to 3d6 damage as "poorly done surgery".

[hal]

In the end, it all depends on what you want to do as GM. The rules for leaving impaling objects inside a body means that the weapon inflicts the same damage after 24 hours as it did initially. That arrow that inflicted 4 points doubled initially, probably does 4 points of damage (without damage multipliers, I can see it being argued that it inflicts only 4 points of damage) every 24 hours. Four days means the character suffers 16 points of damage.

Do you wait four days and watch your patient/comrade die, or do you remove it quick and attempt to staunch the bleeding afterwards (failed surgery roll inflicting 3d6 damage).

Quick cinematic rules of 1/2 damage coming out as going in

or

Surgery rules applied in all their gory glory?

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

No, they takfiri aren't down to bows and arrows just yet [too bad]. I have dealt with perforating wounds, impalements ,etc.

Basically, as I had earlier stated:

• • look for exit wound [ this discussion is assuming that the arrow has not exited]
  • CONTROL BLEEDING
• stabilize in place with bulky dressings
• do not remove under field conditions- unless there is an airway compromise
• transport casualty to nearest surgical team/hospital/aid station eqipuipped for the injury
• shortening an impaled object should only be done with proper tools, and only if the object is so long that it actually inhibits transport of the patient

That applies to arrow wound, pencils, rebar,etc. I would never recommend just yanking or shoving an arrow, except possibly in very unusual circumstances. You may cause further injury to the casualty. Blood vessels and nerves might be damaged or severed by splinters or the arrowhead, moving inside the wound. Removal should be done, whenever possible, by a trained surgeon in a controlled, clean environment. Don't forget about the risk of infection.

EDIT- Sorry for repeating myself, but I'd like to make certain that everyone understands how this should be handled, in case one of you runs across an arrow sticking out of a buddy in real life! The whole 'just yank it out ' myth is as bad as the idea of 'just shove it back in' with eviscerations, and nearly as common as 'just lean back' for nosebleeds.

I will add that if it is an Eye injury you should cover of the non damaged eye, to prevent the injured person from looking around and causing both eyes to move.