Feinting with a Slam attack.

[nik1979]

Is it RAW to feint with a slam attack.

Can't I use AoA: Feint and Attack.
-Move 3 (medium load)
-Feint Slam (brawl-16)
-Attack Halberd (polearm-16)
?

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

I don't see why not.

Although in your example, it wouldn't matter anyway...Brawling-16 will give you Feint-16, so will Halberd-16. So it won't make any actual difference in the feint, and since feinting doesn't make a weapon unready you may as well just feint with the halberd. If your brawling was higher, though, it would be a good tactic.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

I don't see why not.

Although in your example, it wouldn't matter anyway...Brawling-16 will give you Feint-16, so will Halberd-16. So it won't make any actual difference in the feint, and since feinting doesn't make a weapon unready you may as well just feint with the halberd. If your brawling was higher, though, it would be a good tactic.

It might matter if the enemy thought he was going to attack with a Slam instead of the Halberd.

Plenty of enemies might square themselves for impact, maybe even try to AoA Slam back, instead of trying to avoid a smaller enemy with a long weapon. Maybe the enemy wants Close Combat.

If the enemy reacts to the Feint by deciding to AoA Slam you, it certainly makes a difference.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by Icelander

It might matter if the enemy thought he was going to attack with a Slam instead of the Halberd.

I'm trying to think of a game situation where this will matter, and I just can't. Even if the guy on the receiving end thinks it was a slam attempt, because the GM lied to him ("he missed! No! Hahaha! It was a feint!"), he's going to have been "missed" by the slam so much that the halberd guy is still at reach 1+ to attack with his weapon. That's hard for me to imagine.

Plus, as the rules work, the only person who might have their actions affected by this is someone using Wait...and they're going to be interrupting this guy's All-Out Attack, so their counterattacks are going to be potentially more effective. Otherwise, if the Feinted person isn't Waiting, they don't to react at all until this combination is played out. It could have been anything used to Feint, it's just a contest of skills not a "how do you react?" trigger.

[nik1979]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

I'm trying to think of a game situation where this will matter, and I just can't.

-Poor Terrain (crowded spaces)
-Halbeirder charges opponent with the visible intent to slam him.
-Opponent Side Steps the charge, with a reteat for an additional +3 to dodge.
-As the the Halbeirder moves past the sidestepping opponent, he suddenly spins on his heel, turning 270 degrees to bring his halberd squarely on his opponent who didnt see the sudden change of direction comming

Although i changed it to axe, as I remembreed the minimum reach of the halberd.

Elite Axeman (complete; except for assets)
75 points + 35 points

Attributes [40]: ST 13 [30]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 11 [10].
Secondary Characteristics [6]: BL 33 [0]; HP 16 [6]; Dmg 1d/2d-1 [0]; Per 10 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Basic Spd 5.25 [0]; Basic Move 5 [0]; Dodge 9 [0].
Advantages [19]: Combat Reflex [15]; Signature Gear ($2000) [4].
Disadvantages [-35]: <roll randomly>
Quirks [-5]:
Primary Skills [25]: (Total 50 points)
..Primary Weapon [25]:
....Polearm or Two-Handed Axe/Mace (default) (A) DX+6 [24]-16; Fast Draw (Weapon) (A) DX [1]-12
Secondary Skills [16]:
..Secondary Combat Skills [9]: Feint (H) Brawl+4 [5]-16; Brawl (E) DX+2 [4]-12.
..Soldier Training [7]:Shield (E) DX [1]-10 (Block-10+DB); Soldier (A) IQ [2]-10; Hiking (A) HT+1 [4]-12.
Background Skills [9]:
..Area Knowledge (Homelands) (E) IQ [0]-10;
..Athletic Skills [4]: Riding (A) DX [2]-10; Running (A) HT-1 [1]-10; Swimming (A) HT [1]-11.
..Wrestling (A) DX [2]-10
..Intimidation (A) Will [2]-10 or Leadership (A) IQ [2]-10
..Savoir-Faire (Any) (E) IQ [1]-11 or First Aid (E) IQ [1]-10.

Starting Assets (Average) [Status 0]:
Combat Load: 91lbs / 99lbs (medium; move 3) $1,735
....Great Axe (Skill-16; Parry-12; dmg 2d+4 cut) $300, 8lbs
....Armor $1,775; 74lbs
........Head DR8/6
........Torso and Groin DR9/7; Rear DR4/2*
........Arms DR5/3*
........Legs DR 3/2*
........Hands DR4
........Feet DR5
..Steel Breastplate over Mail Hauberk DR 9/7* (torso) $730 43lbs
..Legionary Helm over Mail Coif DR8/6* $205 10lbs
..Studded Leather Skirt DR3/2*; $60; 6lbs
..Mail Sleeves DR4/2*; $70; 9lbs
..Gauntlets and Sollerets $250; 9lbs
..Cloth Sleeves $20; 2lbs
..Face Mask $100; 4lbs.

Monthly Pay: $100 plus $600 Cost of Living Expense paid by Employer.

Tactics.
Slam and Slash.
..AoA: Feint and Attack
....Feint with Slam attack (Skill-16)
....Attack with 2h-Axe (Skill-16) (dmg 2d+2 cut)

[Incard]

Feinting with a Slam attack is a good way to move in on an enemy. If you aren't interested in actually slamming your foe, but just need to close the distance, why not toss a slam-feint in there as you approach? It won't be penalized for Move and Attack in the same way that a feint with your real weapon would.

[nik1979]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

I'm trying to think of a game situation where this will matter, and I just can't. Even if the guy on the receiving end thinks it was a slam attempt, because the GM lied to him ("he missed! No! Hahaha! It was a feint!"), he's going to have been "missed" by the slam so much that the halberd guy is still at reach 1+ to attack with his weapon. That's hard for me to imagine.

Feints dont always have to misses?
-Some of them are attacks that provoke the wrong defense.
-A successfull attack but with an unexpected result (ex. the slam was a shove, to a more desirable angle).
-Or probably simple misdirection, where the opponent underestimates the tactic.
** in this case, an opponent who is too close to the halberier knows the reach limitation, expected a slam but instead realizes the halbierder was just making room for his swing.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by nik1979

-Poor Terrain (crowded spaces)
-Halbeirder charges opponent with the visible intent to slam him.
-Opponent Side Steps the charge, with a reteat for an additional +3 to dodge.
-As the the Halbeirder moves past the sidestepping opponent, he suddenly spins on his heel, turning 270 degrees to bring his halberd squarely on his opponent who didnt see the sudden change of direction comming

None of this will happen if you Feint. All Feint is going to do is result in a skill vs. skill contest to determine the penalty - if any - to the defender's active defenses. See Feint, pg. B365. If you want to provoke movements and a reaction, you need to Attack. In this case, you'd do a Slam and Attack as your AOA (Double), and the defender would get the +3 for Retreat against both portions. You wouldn't be able to do this and spin 270 degrees for a surprise attack because a) you can only move forward (so no spin, you'd need to turn, see pg B365) and b) the best you can hope for by flanking someone who started the turn seeing you is a -2 for a runaround attack (see pg B391).

Originally Posted by nik1979

Feints dont always have to misses?
-Some of them are attacks that provoke the wrong defense.

That's not a Feint, that's an Attack.

Originally Posted by nik1979

-A successfull attack but with an unexpected result (ex. the slam was a shove, to a more desirable angle).

Also an Attack, not a Feint.

Originally Posted by nik1979

-Or probably simple misdirection, where the opponent underestimates the tactic.

Possible, but since a Feint is really just an opposed die roll and you rarely get to "react" other than by rolling your skill against the Feinters, I don't see this happening to a useful degree very often.

Originally Posted by nik1979

** in this case, an opponent who is too close to the halberier knows the reach limitation, expected a slam but instead realizes the halbierder was just making room for his swing.

Making room how? When the halberdier Feints, the defender doesn't get to Dodge, Retreat, etc. It's a Feint. If the halberdier wants the defender to react, you need to use Attack.

***

Your original question was can you fake a slam as a Feint - I said yes, but I'd have been more precise if I said "You can use Brawling to Feint, and call it a fake slam for color." If you actually want to provoke a reaction, not have a contest of skills, you need to do something other than Feint. It's not how it works.

[nik1979]

Ah! This just made me realize, strictly RAW, you can't use SLAM attack as a feint because feint is not an attack. Although a feint can look like anything (Anything at all that would cause your opponent to struggle with their next defense).

Sorry, about that I still have that DnD attack action ingrained, so when you say attack, with an attack action you can: sunder, trip, disarming, etc etc. Which is not the same in GURPS where there is an Attack (a roll to hit and damage), and there are all the other manuvers.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog

If you actually want to provoke a reaction, not have a contest of skills, you need to do something other than Feint. It's not how it works.

Why doesn't Feint provoke a reaction? At least in some incarnations, it is a fake attack. How is provoking a reaction resolved then?