Duchy of Dran

[JLV]

Originally Posted by hcobb

I can't speak to that, only the official setting.

Explain the economics of hiring a wizard and paying him to open a gate to get a wagon-load of turnips to the big city a week early...

[BrianEye]

Originally Posted by JLV

Explain the economics of hiring a wizard and paying him to open a gate to get a wagon-load of turnips to the big city a week early...

Wizard is paid by the Royal Treasury as part of ensuring commerce flow. Partly defrayed by the Guilds. ;)

Also, the Gates are part of the setting as written. I'm not a fan of them myself, but there they are. Your Cidri May Vary, of course. I probably won't use them, or will restrict them somehow. Then again, I'm more of a Sky Ship sort ofd GM, so there you go.

[hcobb]

The actual problem lies on page ITL 173. "Each city or town on this map has at least one public Gate to each other city"

Putting a full gate station of ten wizards in each city and town in Dran gives 19 gate stations of ten wizards each (which don't have enough gates to fully connect to each other) or 190 of the 300 total wizards in Dran.

Just having eight gate stations (one per city) with a gate or two per village really taxes the listed wizard population. You're getting to the point where the army, police and mercenaries simply do not have any wizards.

The choices are either that Elyntia in general or Dran specifically really really prize wizardry (double the size of the Wizard Academy, there are a total of 600 wizards in Dran (150:1 WRT general population) and you get a minimal gate network of eight gate stations) or the 300:1 rule applies (use my Wizard Academy as listed and there is one gate station in Dranning and another in one of the Dwarf cities with most villages rarely if ever connected).

[Skarg]

If you replace the phrase "at least one" with "sometimes ...", you get the kind of situation we used to have and that still are what makes sense to me, i.e.:

Sometimes cities have one or more gates publicly available to other cities, usually nearby ones or capitals, for a fee.

Sometimes during emergencies, gates are opened to other places, such as a village to help relieve famine. Sometimes such a gate remains after the emergency, and access to it is sold publicly until it breaks down.

Dwarven settilements also often use gates, as they are very helpful to get supplies into the mountains and/or underground, but as they are very beneficial to their affairs, they tend to be picky about who uses them, and/or charge fairly high rates for their use.

[hcobb]

I think it is my estimation of the rural population that's off. So refactoring that.

• 200k total population
• 666 active wizards
• Six percent of whom operate the four gate stations
• Eight thousand gate trips a week
• Half of the gate trips are consumed by 200 regular commuters

Dranning's eight gates go to: The Elyntian capital, Tro, Bordre, Canigli, Kel, Bridgefort, Rubydelve, and one floating gate for seasonal harvest or other special occasions.
Tro's eight gates go to: Dranning, Canigli, Podliforku, Thargi Swamp fort, capital of Bolors, the fort at the junction of the King Ater and Bright rivers and two floating gates.
Bordre's eight gates go to: Dranning, Winterhome, the four dwarven settlements, and two floating gates.
Canigli's eight gates go to: Dranning, Tro, four cities in Deseret and Bolors, and two floating gates.

[JLV]

Well, you run it your way, and I'll run it mine. I think my method gives a lot more opportunities for adventure hooks, though. ;-)

Personally, I believe gates, like magic items, should be extremely rare and serve a story purpose, not as common as old shoes (yes, I know, you see it in ITL, but as Phil says a lot -- you can change anything you want). In my opinion, if you have too many "magical" things, pretty soon nothing seems "magical" anymore. It's like street light or an old tin can by the side of the road. I try to evoke wonder in my players; give them a sense that magic truly is amazing and exciting. When it seems more like taking the elevator to the third floor, pretty soon a lot of the excitement of the RPG goes away. Needless to say, that's just my opinion, YMMV, etc., etc.

My original answer was written to address the question asked -- "what do you think Dran is like?" That's what I think it's like, and in my game, it's like that. "Canon" or not. :-)

[Skarg]

I love games based on maps, where there is a world where the terrain is quite significant and shapes and determines what kinds of situations and adventures logically happen. A big part of play can be exploring and collecting maps, not just out of curiosity, but because it's a practical concern to see what various ways you might be able to get from place to place. Having an easy reliable thorough gate network undermines that.

(It of course offers other play opportunities, so as JLV just mentioned, I don't mean to discourage others from doing that if that's what they want.)

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Skarg

I love games based on maps, where there is a world where the terrain is quite significant and shapes and determines what kinds of situations and adventures logically happen. A big part of play can be exploring and collecting maps, not just out of curiosity, but because it's a practical concern to see what various ways you might be able to get from place to place. Having an easy reliable thorough gate network undermines that.

Have you ever looked at The One Ring by Cubicle Seven? They really play up the "Bilbo-ish" love of maps in there, and have some pretty interesting routines on expedition planning and overland travel (the "planning" part strikes me as kind of brilliant, actually, even if a bit clunky). It really sort of accentuates that particular element of Tolkien's novels -- the "there and back again" feeling, I mean...

Like you, I love "map-based" (maybe I really mean "map-centric") games, and have ever since I picked up a copy of that old Judges Guild Book of Treasure Maps (now, alas, long disappeared from my ownership) when I was a teenager. It's not just how to get treasure, but how to get THERE and what happens along the way for me, I guess -- which is why I only like gates to allow travel for some very specific story purpose...and why I like them to be dangerous and risky to use too! ;-)

[hcobb]

My objective is to attempt to match as many of Evil Stevie's random concepts into a coherent system to avoid situations like:

GM: "A wizard appears."

Player: "Sure, which of the wizards we've met before is it?"

GM: "No, it's a new wizard you haven't met before."

Player: "But we've already met every single wizard in Dran already."

GM: "What?"

Player: "Given that one in three hundred people is a wizard then there's fewer than 700 wizards in the duchy, and we've already met 53 in the army, 44 in the police ..."

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by JLV

Have you ever looked at The One Ring by Cubicle Seven? ...

No, but I've had a similar recommendation before, so it's on my list of interesting-sounding aspects of other RPGs to eventually check out - it does sound interesting - thanks!

Originally Posted by JLV

Like you, I love "map-based" (maybe I really mean "map-centric") games, and have ever since I picked up a copy of that old Judges Guild Book of Treasure Maps (now, alas, long disappeared from my ownership) when I was a teenager. It's not just how to get treasure, but how to get THERE and what happens along the way for me, I guess -- which is why I only like gates to allow travel for some very specific story purpose...and why I like them to be dangerous and risky to use too! ;-)

Yes, quite!

Even when a gate is non-hazardous and offered to the public for use, the WG and other powers/enemies that be may be quite interested in which interesting-looking people are using them to go where.

Originally Posted by hcobb

My objective is to attempt to match as many of Evil Stevie's random concepts into a coherent system to avoid situations like:

GM: "A wizard appears."

Player: "Sure, which of the wizards we've met before is it?"

GM: "No, it's a new wizard you haven't met before."

Player: "But we've already met every single wizard in Dran already."

GM: "What?"

Player: "Given that one in three hundred people is a wizard then there's fewer than 700 wizards in the duchy, and we've already met 53 in the army, 44 in the police ..."

I'm interested in consistent demographics too, and do think that there is probably a large unmapped rural population in Dran, and that the urban census numbers may be suspect too.

I think your specific example is exaggerated, but I think I take your point. However I tend to look at it more as I want to have an idea how many wizards there are, where they are, and what the notable/interesting ones are currently up to, to some degree.