Asking opinions about preaching

[rkbrown419]

Is the god/goddess/pantheon in question real in the game word and does he/she/they intervene in mortal affairs? If he/she/they are then a Religious Ritual roll could provide a manifestation of the deity(ies) existence and power, whether it's subjective, objective, subtle or spectacular depends on how good a roll and the character of the deity(ies) in question. If the religion is false or the gods don't intervene in mortal affairs the any of the Enthrallment skills, Hypnotism, or Sleight of Hand might make someone think they've experienced a manifestation of the divine.

[Orion Deckrect]

Hey, people... loosing the point!

The PC already knows why she wants the other character joins the religion.

And i do really believe that just prove tha god is real dont automatically makes people join a templar rank!

Ok... lets try something different... Sargent Bob is tries to convince Joe to join the army, because he thinks Joe could be a good soldier and have a nice carer. But Joe never thought about himself as a soldier. How could Sargent Bob make Joe join the forces?

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Orion Deckrect

I think Propaganda is completely out, because the task here occurs while two people meet and talk arround one hour or two.

Propaganda involves the planed use of readio medias, slogans, TV space and outdoors. Design a project of how is the better way to promulgate an idea.

But Propaganda also involves devising the messaging too, does it not?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Orion Deckrect

Hey, people... loosing the point!

The PC already knows why she wants the other character joins the religion.

And i do really believe that just prove tha god is real dont automatically makes people join a templar rank!

I really don't see why Diplomacy isn't appropriate here. Either that or just a straight reaction roll.

Ok... lets try something different... Sargent Bob is tries to convince Joe to join the army, because he thinks Joe could be a good soldier and have a nice carer. But Joe never thought about himself as a soldier. How could Sargent Bob make Joe join the forces?

Recruiters, IME, use a combination of Fast-Talk and Diplomacy.

[The Colonel]

Interesting that she's trying to convert someone directly to clergy.
Normally you'd expect someone to change religions first, and then be approached for investiture.
In most religions clergy are recruited from members of the laity who already show tendencies to act like clergy, whatever that means for a given religion.
Even in a true polytheism where believers venerate all of the deities from time to time the clergy for a given deity will be selected from people showing a particular devotion to that particular altar.

[rkbrown419]

Originally Posted by Orion Deckrect

Hey, people... loosing the point!

The PC already knows why she wants the other character joins the religion.

And i do really believe that just prove tha god is real dont automatically makes people join a templar rank!

Ok... lets try something different... Sargent Bob is tries to convince Joe to join the army, because he thinks Joe could be a good soldier and have a nice carer. But Joe never thought about himself as a soldier. How could Sargent Bob make Joe join the forces?

I don't really see joining the army as equivalent to joining a religion.

Sergeant Bob could use Carousing to get Joe drunk enough to be susceptible to Fast Talk to sign up. Once Joe sobers up he can't get out of the army unless your low fantasy world has laws that would get him out for diminished capacity, and even then it's his word against Sergeant Bob's and while a magistrate's deciding what to do Joe's probably in the stockade for going AWOL. That's assuming he isn't just summarily executed for desertion it depends on what the laws are in your game world.

OTOH if Reverend Rob gets Joe drunk and Fast Talks him into joining Rob's flock once Joe sobers up he can avoid Rev. Rob and never go to church and no one will know he joined the faith unless joining involves some sort of branding, tattoo's, scarification or other obvious marking of the new member.

On the other pseudopodium if Sgt. Bob has some genuine war trophies to show off he should get a bonus to his Public Speaking, or Psychology roll to get Joe to join up. Likewise if Rev. Rob can arrange a "divine manifestation" (real or convincing stage magic) he should get a bonus to the same skills to get Joe to convert.

[Canology]

Public Speaking includes both debate and rhetoric so it seems like that would be the way to go. I didn't get the impression from the OP that the character wanted to trick the NPC into joining the church, so Sleight of Hand, etc don't seem like good fits.

[capnq]

ISTM that Enthrallment (Persuade) would be the most applicable 4th edition skill for making converts. A speaker can have an audience of one.

If your campaign is using 3rd edition, many of the religious leaders in the two Who's Who volumes had the Bard skill.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by rkbrown419

I don't really see joining the army as equivalent to joining a religion.

Sergeant Bob could use Carousing to get Joe drunk enough to be susceptible to Fast Talk to sign up. Once Joe sobers up he can't get out of the army unless your low fantasy world has laws that would get him out for diminished capacity, and even then it's his word against Sergeant Bob's and while a magistrate's deciding what to do Joe's probably in the stockade for going AWOL. That's assuming he isn't just summarily executed for desertion it depends on what the laws are in your game world.

Most low-tech armies, you just get drafted/inducted. They don't really ask you/fast-talk you. For modern armies, you're not immediately shipped off, in almost every case. And there's no penalty for breaking contract till you actually ship off for boot.

Originally Posted by rkbrown419

OTOH if Reverend Rob gets Joe drunk and Fast Talks him into joining Rob's flock once Joe sobers up he can avoid Rev. Rob and never go to church and no one will know he joined the faith unless joining involves some sort of branding, tattoo's, scarification or other obvious marking of the new member.

On the other pseudopodium if Sgt. Bob has some genuine war trophies to show off he should get a bonus to his Public Speaking, or Psychology roll to get Joe to join up. Likewise if Rev. Rob can arrange a "divine manifestation" (real or convincing stage magic) he should get a bonus to the same skills to get Joe to convert.

Public Speaking is the wrong skill unless the recruiter is giving a rousing speech to a crowd Joe happens to be in, IMO. Diplomacy would be the correct skill, IMO, with a penalty based on how opposed the target originally was to joining up, and with positive modifiers for cool props/divine miracles in a setting where they're not common.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Orion Deckrect

Hey, people... loosing the point!

That's not a very productive way to motivate strangers to help you.

Similarly, you don't just pick out a useful stranger and expect to be able to talk to them until you convert them. You need to get to know them a bit to determine their type of personality and some about their background and their current needs, and then tailor your message to that as much as you can. Some people simply won't be willing to take up your cause, and some will do it for their own reasons.

If you want a sincere convert, generally you look for people who are unhappy with their present circumstances and don't have many friends (Psychology, Detect Lies, Body Language). Explain how your cult will give them new hope (Diplomacy, Public Speaking), and deliver on it by being their best new friend (Acting, Sex Appeal) and providing the things their old way of living didn't supply (Carousing, and I'm sure you can imagine more).

[ It helps immensely in RL if you have personal favorable reaction modifiers, like Appearance, Voice, and Charisma, though this is not always borne out by the rules, so you may want to invest in Smooth Operator and Luck as well. You can also accumulate favorable modifiers by spending a lot of time getting to know your prospect, doing them favors, pressing the issue when their IQ or Will has unfavorable modifiers from sleep loss or other privation. ]

Once you have them hooked on their new blissful circumstances, you can begin asking them to do things for you in return, then requiring them (Diplomacy, Leadership). The threat of being rejected again can be particularly powerful as it plays on primal needs for companionship, on conscious and subconscious ideas of self-esteem, and on the need most people have at some level to belong to something greater than themselves (Psychology again, Fast-Talk, Intimidation as a last resort).