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Old 02-11-2019, 11:01 PM   #71
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
It's true that the Three were somewhat different from the Seven and the Nine - they were made later, and Celebrimbor, the crafter of the Rings of Power, seems to have put more of his skill into them. However, I don't think the Seven and the Nine were different from each other. Remember, the elves who made the Rings of Power intended to keep and use them - there was no plan to give them away to men or dwarves. I think the Seven and the Nine were only distinguished later, by how they were disposed, and would probably have had the same effect on their bearers even if they were distributed differently.

On whether dwarves got unaging from their Rings, I don't think so. We know of at least one line of bearers of one of the Seven, the House of Durin, and they included members who appear to have died of old age, at more or less the normal time for dwarves. And I don't think this is a matter of the Rings giving longer life, but the dwarves just willingly passed the Ring on to their heirs at the end of their "natural" lives - the effect of the Rings, to make their bearers coveteous of them and unwilling to give them up, would still apply to them. If it didn't, then the plot of LoTR doesn't make much sense - they could just have given the Ring to Gimli, who wouldn't have any problem dropping it into Mount Doom at the end.
As I understand it, Dwarven life is a weird compromise. They have a longer biological life then men but like elves they go to Mandos instead of leaving Middle Earth. From what Dwarves say they can reincarnate but unlike elves they are actually reborn from time to time whereas an elf that is reincarnated after leaving Mandos seems to be reincarnated as an adult.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:06 AM   #72
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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There wasn't any danger of that, as long as the One was not being used for that purpose. The Three were safe for their (naturally immortal) users to use as long as the One was lost, or in the hands of someone who would not, or could not, use its power of control. As long as the One Ring was lost, the Three Rings were safe to use. Once Sméagol had it, the Three were still safe, because Sméagol had no clue what he had and never tried to use that power against the bearers of the Three. Ditto Bilbo.

Frodo knew what he had, but he never tried to use it for that. Galadriel warned him against it, trying that would have destroyed him, unless he first trained his mind and will for the task. It wouldn't be impossible, but it's not something Frodo could have done casually.
The One Ring is often described as having a non-sentient willfulness of its own. Without a user it may not actively have been a danger to the users of the three, but its inherent nature could still have been oriented to disguising itself.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 PM   #73
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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The One Ring is often described as having a non-sentient willfulness of its own. Without a user it may not actively have been a danger to the users of the three, but its inherent nature could still have been oriented to disguising itself.
Yeah, but I don't think that will by itself could act against the other Ring-wearers. The Ring is sort of alive, it's actually a piece of Sauron in a way. But the Bearers of the Three used their Rings without any problem for ~3000 years, from the time Isildur fell to the end of the Third Age, so apparently there's no particular issue until someone tries to use the One for that purpose.

I think the One Ring's innate 'will' is more an instinctive kind of thing, a 'get back to Sauron' program. I don't think the One Ring can plan out elaborate strategies or anything like that.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:56 PM   #74
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Yeah, but I don't think that will by itself could act against the other Ring-wearers. The Ring is sort of alive, it's actually a piece of Sauron in a way. But the Bearers of the Three used their Rings without any problem for ~3000 years, from the time Isildur fell to the end of the Third Age, so apparently there's no particular issue until someone tries to use the One for that purpose.

I think the One Ring's innate 'will' is more an instinctive kind of thing, a 'get back to Sauron' program. I don't think the One Ring can plan out elaborate strategies or anything like that.
Sure, but it's not an elaborate strategy to instinctively coast under the radar.
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #75
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
Yeah, but I don't think that will by itself could act against the other Ring-wearers. The Ring is sort of alive, it's actually a piece of Sauron in a way. But the Bearers of the Three used their Rings without any problem for ~3000 years, from the time Isildur fell to the end of the Third Age, so apparently there's no particular issue until someone tries to use the One for that purpose.

I think the One Ring's innate 'will' is more an instinctive kind of thing, a 'get back to Sauron' program. I don't think the One Ring can plan out elaborate strategies or anything like that.
Do remember the Ring elaborately tempted Samwise. Admittedly Sam found the temptation risible, proof that a sense of humor is a survival trait, but the temptation was more elaborate that a simple algorithm. The One Ring is like the object that the giant-ogre-witch has placed their heart or soul. If the One Ring is a soul object, then it has part of Sauron's mind or soul in it.

If we assume a less than conscious aspect of Sauron's mind then wearing or bearing the One Ring brings a part of Sauron's unconscious into the mind of whoever wears or bears the One Ring.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:44 PM   #76
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Do remember the Ring elaborately tempted Samwise. Admittedly Sam found the temptation risible, proof that a sense of humor is a survival trait, but the temptation was more elaborate that a simple algorithm. The One Ring is like the object that the giant-ogre-witch has placed their heart or soul. If the One Ring is a soul object, then it has part of Sauron's mind or soul in it.
No doubt it does have part of Sauron's soul within it. In fact, it probably has most of Sauron's essence within it. JRRT once said that if someone else ever genuinely mastered the Ring, gained full control over it (and it over him), Sauron would be affected precisely the same way he was when the Ring was unmade, reduced to a powerless 'shadow'.

But tempting Samwise was no more elaborate than tempting anyone else. It just reached into his head, grabbed at his conscious/subconscious fantasies, and offered to make them real. The temptation came mostly from within, drawn out by the Ring. Samwise crafted the fantasy, the Ring gave it 'reality'.

And of course, between Sam's love for Frodo and his own common sense, it was quickly dismissed.
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