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Old 02-05-2019, 11:59 AM   #31
Andreas
 
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
I would love to give terrain adaptation and perfect balance to all the elves, but... the points...
You could just include a perk or 0 point feature which allows virtually all elves to learn such a set of traits if they spend the necessary effort on training them. All elves then wouldn't have such abilities by default, but many old elves would.

That could even potentially include almost everything on the elf templates, leaving them only slightly more expensive than humans.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:01 PM   #32
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
If you don't want to put in even Attractive as a Racial Trait positive Appearance levels should go in Common Traits. It's frequently mentioned and Galdriel and Arwen may even have been Transcendant (though probably the "Impresive" variant).
I always have a hard time with appearance in general. I tend toward the camp that races shouldn't get appearance modifiers since it's relative to the race, but I waver. Let's not get into that discussion here. I've added appearance (positive) and charisma as common traits to all the Elf templates.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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That's what I was aiming for too. And... We're above that level. Any thoughts on what to trim?
I think you can replace the broad +1 to IQ for the Noldor with a Talent of some sort. I'd be inclined to build a "Noldor Talent" that included some crafting and some language skills. I figure you could probably fit that into 10 points, and either give them 1 level of it and save 10 points, or two levels and be back where you started.

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Originally Posted by khorboth
or disadvantages for Elves? Tolkien was not big on giving them any weaknesses. I don't think "tied to fate" is a fair thing to give a PC.
Hmm. I actually think a -5 Destiny wouldn't be inappropriate for both elves and dwarves. It wouldn't so much be the "you're guaranteed to have one bad experience or embarrassing failure" that the standard Minor Destiny gives you. Instead, it would just be "you can't fight fate". If you were letting people buy successes or remove critical failures by spending points, I'd say that it would give the GM license to deny a couple such expenditures every session.

Other disadvantages for elves... You could probably justify Social Stigma (Minority Group) - they're definitely in the minority compared to humans, and lots of humans react negatively to them, considering them suspicious or uncanny. Other than that, I can't think of any other disadvantages that are really universal for elves. However, one thing you could also do is come up with a short list of "stereotypical" or simply extremely common disadvantages, and say that, while they don't count as part of the racial template, a member of that race can take them without them counting against any disadvantage limit. That's the approach the Discworld RPG takes with several "common but not universal" disadvantages for some of its non-human species.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Men [Varies]

I think The various Men don't need their own template, but a few traits need to be called out.

Numenorian Heritage [5] (special unusual background)
Generally requires Apperance: attractive or higher.
Allows Extended Lifespan.
Allows various magical powers. (by GM agreement.)
Will allow some magical items and plot-related things to work.

Half-Elven [5] (special unusual background)
Requires distinctive feature quirk.
Requires Extended Lifespan or Unaging.
Allows various magical powers. (by GM agreement.)
Will allow some magical items and plot-related things to work.

Wose Eyes [-1] (special case of distinctive feature)

Other human variations seem to be mostly cultural in nature and therefore can be handled as differences in common traits.

My old MERP book also has Umli as half-dwarves, but I can't think of a canonical example, so I don't feel obligated to stat them out. So... I think that's it. Please rip them apart.
I'm rereading LotR just now. I'm in the first half of Return of the King and Gandalf has just told Pippin that the Stewart of Gondor and his younger son can "perceive if he bends his will thither, much of what is passing in the minds of men, even those that dwell far off. It is difficult to deceive him, and dangerous to try." This sounds like telepathy or the kind of telempathic abilities Counsellor Troi had.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Excellent point with the Dwarves. I think another level of lifespan is in order. I'll update the template.
3 levels of extended lifespan (x8) means they don't start aging until 400.


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The lifespan of Dwarves was varied depending on their ancestry. The Longbeards were particularly long-lived, but by the Third Age their lifespan was diminished and they lived, on average, 250 years. Until they were around 30 years of age, Dwarves were considered too young for heavy labour or war (hence the slaying of Azog by Dain Ironfoot at age 32 was a great feat). By the age of 40, Dwarves were hardened into the appearance that they would keep for most of their lives. Between the approximate ages of 40 and 240, most Dwarves were equally hale and able to work and fight with vigour. They took on the appearance of age only about ten years before their death, wrinkling and greying rapidly, but never going bald. Occasionally they would live up to 300 years of age, and Dwalin reached the rare lifespan of 340 years (comparable to a Middle Man living to 100).[13]

Although Dwarves did not suffer from diseases, corpulence could affect them. In prosperous circumstances, many grew fat by the age of 200 and became physically inept.


Source: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dwarves#Lifespan

This suggests 2 levels of Extended Lifespan and 1 level of early maturation [0]
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:04 PM   #36
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Noldar (high) Elf [66]

This is one of the rare children of the Noldar line born in Middle Earth after the return of the Elves from the Undying lands.

DX +1 [20]
IQ +1 [20]

Telescopic Vision 2 [10]
Voice [10]
Unaging [5]
Shtick: Doesn't sink in snow or leaves[1]

Common Traits:
Appearance (positive)
Charisma
Intolerance
Confused

Animal Empathy

Hidden Lore
Connoisseur (Natural Environments)
History

Edits: Telescopic vision & light walk
Legolas seemed to suggest that fifteen miles was a very minor issue for Elvish sight. That is a great deal more than Telescopic Vision (x2). Also, the curvature of the Earth doesn't block Elvish sight.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:33 PM   #37
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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I'd actually make it full-on Immunity - remember, Dwarves were completely immune to being dominated, even by effects like the Rings of Power. That's why the Seven Rings never turned their bearers into wraiths or made them servants of Sauron. That's why he tried to reclaim them, since they weren't doing what he hoped. Anyway, Mind Control is typically a Common hazard, so "Domination", as a subset, seems fair as a Rare one.
They did seem to make their wearers go obsessive, though that seems to be just an intensification of a trait Dwarves are already prone to.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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They did seem to make their wearers go obsessive, though that seems to be just an intensification of a trait Dwarves are already prone to.
That's why I split "domination" out from "mind control" - it's canonical that the Rings of Power "inflamed" the dwarven bearers' lust for gold. Clearly dwarves can be influenced - see also Gimli being susceptible to the supernatural fear of the Dead Men of Dunharrow, for example. But you can't straight-up break their mind and order them to follow your orders.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:45 PM   #39
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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One of my guiding principals is parsimony. It's really easy to let these get out of control point-wise, but I want to keep them all relatively affordable.
I really think that's fundamentally incompatible with LOTR canon.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: PC Races of Middle Earth

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
I think you can replace the broad +1 to IQ for the Noldor with a Talent of some sort. I'd be inclined to build a "Noldor Talent" that included some crafting and some language skills. I figure you could probably fit that into 10 points, and either give them 1 level of it and save 10 points, or two levels and be back where you started.
I've toyed with the idea, but... then it gets too broad. They were good at everything. What would you put in it? What is the essence of Elven competence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Hmm. I actually think a -5 Destiny wouldn't be inappropriate for both elves and dwarves. It wouldn't so much be the "you're guaranteed to have one bad experience or embarrassing failure" that the standard Minor Destiny gives you. Instead, it would just be "you can't fight fate". If you were letting people buy successes or remove critical failures by spending points, I'd say that it would give the GM license to deny a couple such expenditures every session.

Other disadvantages for elves... You could probably justify Social Stigma (Minority Group) - they're definitely in the minority compared to humans, and lots of humans react negatively to them, considering them suspicious or uncanny. Other than that, I can't think of any other disadvantages that are really universal for elves. However, one thing you could also do is come up with a short list of "stereotypical" or simply extremely common disadvantages, and say that, while they don't count as part of the racial template, a member of that race can take them without them counting against any disadvantage limit. That's the approach the Discworld RPG takes with several "common but not universal" disadvantages for some of its non-human species.
I don't really see the stigma. More often than not, they're seen as wise rather than uncanny. I think it's pretty much a wash.

I'm not sure about the Destiny either. What about...

Taboo Traits: Gizmo, Luck, Super Luck, Serendipity, Blessed (Heroic Feats) [-5]
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