07-22-2006, 05:46 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
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07-22-2006, 10:27 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
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Then, much to my embarrassment, it dawned on me that the only reason that the skill has not yet appeared in my GURPS "Spellgate" campaign is that it just hasn't occured to any of my players to put any points into it. (My campaign sessions invariably go from a PG to an NC-17 rating as soon as my daughter goes to bed.)
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07-27-2006, 11:40 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flushing, Michigan
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
I think the distinction between the two Connoisseur skills would resolve the issue. One would relate to the value of the writing; the other relates to the value of the book itself as a physical object. Using Literature skill would certainly work, too, although I would argue it would only be appropriate for a character who really did know a lot about the literature itself, along with literary history, critical theory, etc.
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07-27-2006, 01:07 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flushing, Michigan
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
I agree entirely. Connoisseur could apply to a wide range of subjects. I would say you could have a Connoisseur specialty for any kind of thing that had the following three features...
1) It is something that can be bought or sold (and the skill will let you determine market value...even if it is something you would personally never degrade by trying to make a profit from it) 2) It is something that has aethetic qualities (and the skill will let you make an aesthetic judgement) 3) It is something that is important to one or more classes, professions, subcultures, social groups, etc. (so being an expert makes you look impressive in some way) Some possibilities...horses, cars, real estate, clothing, electronics, cattle, firearms, dogs, arcade games, carnival rides, fast food, comic books, ancient artifacts, drugs, interior design, etc. A related issue...where does Hobby skill fit in? To me, this is how it would work... Hobby <-- you know all kinds of interesting triva about the subject, but are not an expert in determining how valuable items are; your ability to make yourself sound cool with your knowledge is also limited. (The Hobby skill, to me, is mostly a means of fleshing out the character, adding possibilities for roleplaying, etc., although sometimes it leads to useful information. One might apply the -3 penalty to determine an item's value, etc., though.) Connoisseur <-- effectively, you know everything the Hobby skill would give you AND you CAN assess value, look suave/cool, and so on. (Someone with this skill can actually make a living with it.) Expert <-- You do not simply know interesting trivia, but have a genuinely masterful understanding of the subject and can draw pieces of information from a wide range of related skills. However, while you impress people with your deep knowledge of the subject (assuming you don't put them to sleep), your focus is more on "truth" than "value"--you may know what something means, but you might find it harder to figure out how valuable it was. (On the other hand, the rules for Connoisseur suggest that the typical penalty when trying to determine value, if one doesn't already have Connoisseur, would be -3. Someone with Expert (Egyptology) would roll at his level to determine the significance of a certain mummy being in a certain tomb; he would roll at -3 to figure out what he could sell it for.) Quote:
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07-11-2018, 07:13 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
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07-11-2018, 08:23 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
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"Expert" in GURPS means someone who has acquired a wide range of "book knowledge" relating to some particular topic. This can substitute for any of several (usually) scholarly or scientific skills relating to that topic—but only to recognize things, recite facts about them, and/or quote the views of different experts. "Connoisseur" in GURPS was originally called "Appreciate Beauty," and I believe it was first defined in GURPS Japan. It represented the vitally important skill (in upper class Japan) of knowing how to recognize an object's aesthetic qualities and to communicate your response to them. In 4/e it was differentiated into several distinct appreciations of different things, but the emphasis was always on cultivated taste and not on factual knowledge. Given these two different definitions, names were needed for the different classes of skills. And, well, it's characteristic of English that we have lots of "synonyms" that express the same or similar underlying concepts, but that have different nuances of meaning. Part of good style in English is choosing the word that has exactly the right shade of meaning (one of Heinlein's letters to his agent is a rant about the editor who changed his description of the heroine of The Puppet Masters from "lean" to "slender" and ruined his characterization of her, for example). So using two near synonyms to refer to two different ideas is just the sort of thing a careful writer might do.
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. Last edited by whswhs; 07-11-2018 at 08:29 PM. |
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07-12-2018, 05:15 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
I don't know if Magic has rules for this, but raising a corpse to action after twelve years presumably doesn't even give you a zombie so much as a skeleton, right?
(Roll vs. Forensics to assess the preservative quality of the soil, I guess. Geology is a complementary skill.) Quote:
It was a lesson learned from the Who's Who project, wherein a couple of non-Japanese characters acquired Appreciate Beauty, which seemed a bit odd when that name had acquired such specific GURPS Japan overtones, and the lack of specialisation jarred. (Connoisseurship of various sorts is a classic upper-class hobby; one likes to show that one is spending all that money with taste, don'cha know?) Aside from the ability to create professional critic characters, it also looked terribly appropriate for a certain type of high-end thief.
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07-12-2018, 06:52 AM | #18 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
Expert Skill and Connoisseur are little alike.
An Expert Skill is a theoretical (often drily theoretical) skill covering a relatively narrow academic specialty that cuts across a remarkably broad swath of traditional disciplines. It's a way of saying, "If you find the widely used division of human knowledge into conventional sciences and classic humanities doesn't let you represent a particular realm of erudition, you can reapportion that knowledge along lines of your own choosing." In a university setting, it almost always covers studies termed "cross-disciplinary" or "interdisciplinary." To first order, Expert Skill is an academic skill similar to History or Physics. A Connoisseur skill is a practical understanding and appreciation of something valued for its aesthetic qualities. It represents a "gut feeling" for what makes a particular instance "good" – that's why Killjoy gives -3. It's customarily acquired by partaking; if it's taught at all (and many specialties aren't!), it's labeled "criticism": Film Criticism, Literary Criticism, etc. And it has definite socioeconomic overtones; knowing the price tag and who's paying, and who will be impressed, is essential. That last part is almost never encountered in an academic context. To first order, Connoisseur is a social skill not unlike Carousing or Savoir-Faire. Since this is an undead thread, I'll use an example from a culture famed for its mummies:
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
07-12-2018, 10:41 AM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison Last edited by jason taylor; 07-12-2018 at 09:01 PM. |
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07-12-2018, 10:54 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Skill question...Expert vs. Connoisseur
Maybe connoisseur can be defined as, "a geek that DOES get invited to parties?"
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"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison |
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