Falchions: is there a point in using them?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by jabarto

What advanced rules are your referring to, here? The only ones I'm aware of are the ones that actually pertain to actually statting the weapon, and falchions are no different in that regard. Also, a Very Fine axe is about the same price as a Fine Falchion, .

VF Axes are not permitted under the default rules. VF (Materials) is mostly for blades.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

VF Axes are not permitted under the default rules. VF (Materials) is mostly for blades.

VF axes are available as of Low-Tech, however. I think their CF is something like +500, though.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Langy

VF axes are available as of Low-Tech, however. I think their CF is something like +500, though.

Ah, I don't think it was as of Martial Arts.

I check LT and see that it is available but the appropriate category is +49 CF.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by jabarto

Are you talking about historical use here? You have a good point about the amount of attention such a weapon would draw, but I don't see why it would necessarily be rare and expensive.

Historical and fictionally really. The GM decides what weapons are common at a particular place and time as part of worldbuilding, and this shouldn't be based on game stats because real-life weapon choice is determined by all sorts of things which GURPS doesn't model. Having a character request an exotic weapon which isn't normally made locally is a perfect excuse for the GM to require a trip, dealing with shady merchants and waiting a few months, or paying extortionate prices to a journeyman axesmith. Most low tech craftsmen don't like trying new things because they weren't trained for that and because they are likely to fail and waste valuable materials.

And yes, someone making an axe with a top spike for the very first time should charge more than someone making their thousandth butt spike for a spear. They will need to spend time thinking about how to do it, and probably fail the first few times or create a badly balanced or fragile weapon. The prices in GURPS books are only a guideline.

[Phaelen Bleux]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

Falchions — There's no point to them, but they do give you an edge in combat.

Dang, somebody beat me to it.

On a serious note, weren't falchions more of an iron-age weapon anyway, when it was far earier to forge a Chopper weapon than a Pokie weapon?

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Phaelen Bleux

Dang, somebody beat me to it.

On a serious note, weren't falchions more of an iron-age weapon anyway, when it was far earier to forge a Chopper weapon than a Pokie weapon?

Most historical examples I can think of date from the Middle Ages.

It may be that the more recent examples were more likely to survive, but they clearly continued to coexist with thrusting weapons.

[Dustin]

Originally Posted by jabarto

What advanced rules are your referring to, here? The only ones I'm aware of are the ones that actually pertain to actually statting the weapon, and falchions are no different in that regard. Also, a Very Fine axe is about the same price as a Fine Falchion, while a Very Fine falchion is still about 6-8 times more expensive, so the gap doesn't really close that much.

All I meant by "advanced rules" is that Falchions are already in the LT weapon lists, but you need to use the LTC2 rules to stat up an axe with a topspike. Also FWIW I calculate a Very Fine Large Falchion at ~3.5x the cost of a Very Fine Axe with a small spearhead -- still more expensive, but not the slam dunk on price you get at Good quality (where it's more like 9x).

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Phaelen Bleux

Dang, somebody beat me to it.

On a serious note, weren't falchions more of an iron-age weapon anyway, when it was far earier to forge a Chopper weapon than a Pokie weapon?

Not really. Medium-length, single-edged, relatively heavy blades with a point of balance well forward of the hilt are universal in iron-working cultures. Many were specialized weapons not weaponized tools. Nor were they low status in every time and place: lots of late medieval men at arms and German burghers carried one. All you can generalize about them is that they were good for cutting things up and a bit less agile for parrying or thrusting than a lighter weapon with a PoB closer to the hilt.

Examples made before the 19th century are rare, because swords like this were often plain and cheap and easy to convert to working tools when they wore out.

[gilbertocarlos]

You can fast draw a falchion, you cannot fast draw an axe.

Also the topspike is very much irrealistic and almost every knownful GM would disallow it.

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

Also the topspike is very much irrealistic and almost every knownful GM would disallow it.

There's no reason whatsoever to disallow a perfectly feasible and physically possible weapon or weapon "accessory" just because it wasn't adopted in our known history. When you look at some of the bizarre things our history did produce, putting a spear tip on the top of an axe haft is pretty tame. There may be plenty of other reasons to disallow it: "The smith has never done it before and wouldn't be able to create a working prototype within the desired timeframe," "this particular culture has no conception of such weapons," or whatever. But "it's not historical" isn't one of them. Especially in any game that doesn't hold fast to our own known history (to use the most obvious, soft-ball example: Dungeon Fantasy).