Bedouins for DF help.

[b-dog]

I need help designing some Bedouin tribes for my DF/ Arabian Nights mash up. I need them to be challenging enough that the PCs don't just slaughter them yet not too powerful so that the PCs have some chance of defeating them. What kinds of DF loadouts would you give them? Would they have any magic users in their ranks? How would they negotiate with the PCs? How much tribute would they expect for safe passage on their lands? Would they use holy items? Magic Items? I know they like amulets. so what are good ideas for them? Thanks.

[Tinman]

Bedouin are nomadic shepherds. I don't think they be able to make magic items. However, they might trade for some or get one as a 'gift' for water rights, or loot from attacking a caravan ect.

As for Loadouts:
I would have them have cavalry swords and daggers. A few would have small shields.
Ranged: Either short bows or composite bows (both with poisoned arrows).
Armor would most probably be none. They could use light cloth (DR:1) and the heaviest would be leather (DR:2)

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Tinman

Bedouin are nomadic shepherds. I don't think they be able to make magic items. However, they might trade for some or get one as a 'gift' for water rights, or loot from attacking a caravan ect.

As for Loadouts:
I would have them have cavalry swords and daggers. A few would have small shields.
Ranged: Either short bows or composite bows (both with poisoned arrows).
Armor would most probably be none. They could use light cloth (DR:1) and the heaviest would be leather (DR:2)

There is a distinction between types of livestock specialized in and camel tribes rather look down on sheep tribes.

The weapons are probably more or less accurate though you might check David Niccole: he gives a lot on the fighting cultures of different Medieval peoples. I don't think the composite bow was popular in Arabia for a long time. And despite the stereotype, they preferred straight swords to curved.

[muduri]

Originally Posted by Tinman

Bedouin are nomadic shepherds. I don't think they be able to make magic items. However, they might trade for some or get one as a 'gift' for water rights, or loot from attacking a caravan ect.

I'll just mention - I think Tinman is right about the paucity of magic items for Bedouin per se. Though depending on how accurate you want to be with your nomads, I understand you could look to the Scythians or Khazars for nomads with high craftsmanship and metalworking skills. Of course I'd guess that the Central Asian steppe allows for a greater population density than the Sahara or the Arabian Desert, which probably made it easier to support the craftsmen.

The only magic-crafting nomadic population that comes to mind are the deep-desert Hepec of Hârnworld. I don't remember if Hepec smiths travel with them or if they have fixed forge-temples supported by the nomads - and I've always been curious but have never found out which was closest to the scenario for the Scythians and Khazars either.

[muduri]

But for what it's worth, not that you'd necessarily use this for your game, your Hepec would have super-cool katana-like Taugari swords as loadouts. If you decided to leak a bit of Hârn into your DF world the Hepec would no doubt be greatly honored.

[Dargaron]

Originally Posted by muduri

I'll just mention - I think Tinman is right about the paucity of magic items for Bedouin per se. Though depending on how accurate you want to be with your nomads, I understand you could look to the Scythians or Khazars for nomads with high craftsmanship and metalworking skills. Of course I'd guess that the Central Asian steppe allows for a greater population density than the Sahara or the Arabian Desert, which probably made it easier to support the craftsmen.

The only magic-crafting nomadic population that comes to mind are the deep-desert Hepec of Hârnworld. I don't remember if Hepec smiths travel with them or if they have fixed forge-temples supported by the nomads - and I've always been curious but have never found out which was closest to the scenario for the Scythians and Khazars either.

Also, depending on the time period, Bedouin expies could have more or fewer magic items. If you want to draw upon pre-Islamic Arabia, there was a fair amount of wealth floating around the Arabian Peninsula due to the Incense trade up the coast. While the Persian Gulf trade was largely in the hands of urban centers (since sea-travel was more developed in that region), the trade along the West Coast was largely by land until the Late Hellenistic Period (2nd-1st Century B.C.) Presumably some of this wealth would be used to get a magic sword for the head honcho.

Also, desert nomads were traditionally tapped for mercenary service where possible (along with steppe nomads, shepherding hill-folk, and generally any group that has a warrior aristocracy that isn't directly tied to land or people). This is how the early tribal confederacies in North Arabia got their start ("Early" in this case being 3rd-6th Centuries A.D.): the East Romans and Sassanid Persians would essentially hire a North Arabian tribe to generally cause low-level mayhem on the borderlands of the other empire, and these groups gradually coalesced into large-ish confederations. This would be another opportunity to pick up magic items (or just heavier equipment in general), whether by purchase, a gift from their employer, or flat-out stealing equipment issued them. It's surmised that most of the army that took part in the unification of Arabia in the 7th century were the veterans of the Roman-Sassanid wars that ended in 610 A.D., who went home when theie employers no longer had need of them.

I would recommend the Europa Barbarorum II preview for their Arabian Factions (Saba and the Nabataeans): just ctrl+f to skip down to the sections on the incense trade, and the section on military units.

Link :http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...iew-Arabia-9-8

Regarding combat tactics: the well-off would definitely fight from horseback, probably with javelins more than bows (although Horse-Archers were seen in the North Arabia region since at least the Neo-Assyrian Period, circa 8th-7th centuries B.C.): never underestimate the javelin. They might wear leather scale or some form of light lamellar, although unarmored works too, depending on how "Deep Desert" a theme you're going for. These would be the "fighters" of whatever group the PCs ran into: the ones who would expect to fight and get the majority of whatever spoils were involved. They would probably also have swords of medium-to-long length.

If the infantry get involved, expect lots of slings, bows and javelins on lightly-armored individuals. Expect a few of them to have Shortswords, with the rest having daggers or spears.

Depending on the kind of engagement, think risk vs. reward: On the one hand, if the PCs look too strong to attack openly and refuse to pay whatever toll is in place for passage, then the logical thing for the Bedouin to do is follow them, wait until they're suffering from the desert conditions, and then attack. BUT: is it worth their time to do so? Most nomads would have to consider their flocks, and any time spent harassing a small group of PCs is time they're not spending doing any of the following: tending to their herds, guarding against raids by neighbors, launching a raid on neighbors, spending time with families, or any number of day-to-day tasks that will get neglected if a bunch of the tribe's mounted men are off shadowing a group of (presumably) well-armed mercenaries.

This all assumes, of course, that the relevant bigwig doesn't decide that letting any group go through without paying is an intolerable affront to his rights and attack immediately. In that case, they'd still likely fight from a distance before closing; possibly you'd see one or more of the hot-blooded warriors calling out a strong-looking PC for single combat or some other kind of personal challenge: While the tribal leader is in this fight to either protect his revenue stream or defend tribal honor, the warriors with him are probably in it to kill enemies and look cool doing it, so they can gain standing (and don't forget plunder!) afterwards.

[jason taylor]

The smartest way to use bedouin would probably be as light forces.

The problem of them wanting to go home every season is familiar to war when no prince could afford more then a small professional force and those that could were usually the ones that paid for it by conquest. Most armies were an assembly of traditional contributions from different classes in society leavened with straight out mercenaries. Rather like an American wildfire camp today in fact. Most of the army would be demanding to go home.

For instance in 1066 the fyrdmen were actually staying over their due when the balloon finally went up to use an anachronistic phrase. Just another confirmation of their dedication if two long marches with two desperate battles were not enough(though much of that was done by the huscarls; if I remember the fyrd was dismissed on the assumption that campaign season had ended and had to be regathered on the fly).

[Rasna]

I take the Middle Ages as reference.

Contrary to their neighbours (Syrian Arabs, Persians, Kurds) most of their cavalry didn't wear armor and they were only armed with spears (spears with reach 1,2* or long spears with reach 2,3*, maybe with a butt spike), straight swords, daggers and light medium shields, oval or rounded in shape. Javelins were also possible. Except for some wealthiest warriors who they were capable to afford mail protection and pot helmets with mail aventails, they wore no armor except for the turban (treat as Cloth, Padded. It covers only the skull: DR 1*, 1.2 lbs, 10 $, Don 3, Bulk 0) and sandals or light leather boots.

Archers were almost totally infantrymen. Leather and hardened leather cuirasses were known, but if I'm not wrong they were far more common in South Arabia.

[jason taylor]

Armor would probably not be the highest priority of bedouin-at least if they meant it for themselves rather then for trade. It is sore to lug about when following the pastures and if they need it on a raid, the raid has already been a failure or at least a highly mixed success. That would be more the sort of thing that a warrior class would want, though Tartars certainly wore armor and they were nomadic. On the other hand at their prime Tartars were spending far more of their time campaigning in sedentarist country and less following herds.

I have to get back to my research material. If I remember though, Arab preferences were surprisingly like Western European but a lot lighter on the whole. They weren't like Deghans with their scimatars and lances and tons of armor.

[Rasna]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

I have to get back to my research material. If I remember though, Arab preferences were surprisingly like Western European but a lot lighter on the whole. They weren't like Deghans with their scimatars and lances and tons of armor.

Well, even Sassanian aristocracy didn't use scimitars. They used straight swords. Scimitars were in use among the Gokturks since 7th century and they became widespread in the Middle East around the 10th century.

I'll try an improvised loadout for a Bedouin cavalryman from Syrian steppes.

Armor is nothing more than a turban (Areas: skull. Cloth, Padded: DR 1*, 1.2 lbs, 10 $, Don 3, Holdout 0) and light leather boots (Areas: ankles [legs 6], feet. DR 1 vs cutting only, 1.5 lbs, 50 $, Don 6, Holdout -1). Clothing consists in a long so called "islamic" coat made of wool (Areas: torso, arms, thighs. Ordinary Clothing, Status 0: DR 0, 3.04 lbs, 93.6 $, Don 30) and woolen trousers (Areas: legs and groin. Ordinary Clothing, Status 0: DR 0, 1.68 lbs, 50.4 $, Don 16).

Weaponry consists in a straight sword (treat as Thrusting Broadsword or less frequently Shortsword), a knife (Large Knife, Long Knife or Dagger), a spear (Spear or Long Spear with butt spike), and a shield made of cane, wicker and/or hide (treat as Medium Shield, Light). Some warriors carried a mace (treat as Small Mace or less frequently as Small Rounded Mace) and javelins.

Archers were almost all on foot; they used principally self-bows (treat as Regular Bows or less frequently as Longbows in some cases).

Wealthies warriors could afford mail shirts or even mail hauberks (treat as Mail, Light or Mail, Fine; Heavy Mail was almost exclusively imported from Iraq, Persia, Georgia and from the Crusaders), pot helmets with a nasal and leather or light mail aventails and layered leather or hardened leather scale cuirasses (treat as Layered Leather, Light/Medium or Hardened Leather Medium/Heavy). Metal scale and lamellar armor were known, but very rarely used in the Arabian Peninsula.