Maximum Attributes for Real World People

[Gollum]

The +4 bonus for non stressful situation is designed for daily tasks, like shooting at a cardboard target for training (which often makes believe that we are better with guns than we really would be in the heat of true combat). The example given in Basic Set is an airline pilot for day-to-day flight (page 171). It improves his professional skill from 12 to 14 (only 2% chance to face a problem) ...

For weight lifting skill, I would give it for training days with friends, where the goal is not doing the maximum you can do, but avoiding to harm yourself. I wouldn't give it for competitions, which are stressful.

So, in my humble opinion, it doesn't have to be used in the record calculation.

[Bengt]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

GURPS seems to set unmodified rolls as what you would encounter in an adventuring situation, and give a +4 modifier for everyday use, e.g;

Unmodified lifting roll: moving an awkward rock that's blocking the exit to the dungeon while orcs are chasing you and shooting arrows at you.

Lifting +4 roll: In a gym, lifting weights that are designed to be lifted with no one attacking you.

So skill HT 10 WILL 10 skill Att+2 gives skill 12; in a gym gives you an effective skill of 16, meaning without extra effort you can increase your lift by upto 65% or with Extra Effort by upto 130%. That's just not realistic.

IMO the problem with Lifting skill in controlled situations, e.g. at the gym, is that it gives too much variation. Giving it a bonus doesn't change that, just shifts the range a bit. I think it's fine for adventure situation where you quickly have to find an adequate grip and bracing for your feat of strength.

[Anders]

We need some kind of "take 10" mechanic for routine situations.

[Aldric]

Originally Posted by Anders

We need some kind of "take 10" mechanic for routine situations.

World record breaking lifts wouldn't be routing anyway.
What I think would help is a fixed % increase with a success and maybe a little extra with a crit success.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Anders

We need some kind of "take 10" mechanic for routine situations.

In a way there exists something like this in the form of Task Difficulty Also D&D needs something like this due to its d20 where every result has an equal chance of coming up. A 3d6 uses a bell curve so things like +3 or +2 have a more pronounced effect.

Originally Posted by Aldric

World record breaking lifts wouldn't be routing anyway.
What I think would help is a fixed % increase with a success and maybe a little extra with a crit success.

Perhaps I don't understand what you are suggesting but doesn't GURPS already have something like that?

[Aldric]

Originally Posted by maximara

Perhaps I don't understand what you are suggesting but doesn't GURPS already have something like that?

It gives a bonus per point of margin of success, the bell curve helps here, since the most likely results will fall in a limited range, but if you get the skill at 16, the result on a critical success is still quite different from your average.
That range of possible results is what's making it so difficult to assign a ST value to a real person (that and the fact that some feats of strenght have no equivalent in the rules, so no one can decide if they're 8xBL, 10xBL, 15xBL or something else)

But in the end, I think the values around 13-14 for most stats and 15-16 for ST are what most of my players will look at, and they may not even have to worry about it too much.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Anders

We need some kind of "take 10" mechanic for routine situations.

It could help, but a fixed 10 falls in the opposite problem: no variation at all. And even in daily training, feats of a given athlete do vary ...

But wait! If someone really want to simulate a weightlifting competition with GURPS, there is a simple solution to do it ...

Rather than rolling the dice once to see how much the character can lift and assess who is the better with the RAW formula: +5% per point of margin of success, just play the competition out in detail.

It begins with a given weight, the same for all competitors. They all make one roll to see if they can lift it. Then, the weight is increased. New roll to see if they can lift it again, and so on ...

Exactly as it is done during Olympic competitions: the difficulty of the task increases step by step and only those who succeeded one step can go to the next one.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Gollum

It could help, but a fixed 10 falls in the opposite problem: no variation at all. And even in daily training, feats of a given athlete do vary ...

Roll 1d6+7 instead? Same average but smaller range?

[Daigoro]

If 5-50% bonus is too swingy, just say that success gives +10% lift, and a crit gives +20%, say. That also fits with how most other skills work. I can't think of many others that have an effect linked to MoS; there's Tactics when giving Impulse Points in small unit combat. Any others?

[Anders]

That could work really well.