01-20-2010, 06:26 PM | #41 | ||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
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But in most cases, I think the difference would be between a velite who just scrapes by the minimum requirement or, possibly, is below it but winked at, and a hastati who is comfortably over it. Quote:
It isn't a wise decision to use untested soldiers at all. Which is why good Roman generals prefered to blood their men in easy campaigns, leaven green legions with veteran troops, station experienced formations in places most likely to be threathened, etc. Quote:
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Certainly, many men in politics had living fathers, but no one would have expected the father to share his son's imperium.
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01-20-2010, 08:11 PM | #42 |
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree over the nature of the Polybian system. There's precious little information for us to make alot of these statements from, and alot we don't know. I don't thin kthe Velite was seen as somebody to be looked down open, but as an untested youth who hasn't learned proper soldiering yet. He's likely still dependent on his father(and it's likely he remained so for a considerable time) and he's not going to be trusted. I also find parallels with neighboring cultures in the use of youths as skirmishers.
Fortunately, until we know more about the subject, there's plenty of room for disagreements. I'm leaning more heavily towards the age-experience because legions in this time period are not permanent formations, they are isnteaded levied, used and then disbanded. The individual maniples likely persisted, and were promoted in turn. So you're always going to have a mixture of experience within any given legion. Essentially I see being a Velite as being a precursor to being a Hastus, being a Hastus as a precursor to Principe, and the Triarii being the final position most plebs could reasonably expect to end up in.
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01-20-2010, 08:22 PM | #43 |
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
Icelander, I'm not sure the assidui were as wealthy as you seem to think they were. When I last looked into this, nobody seemed to think that assidui were a small minority of the citizens during the middle republic, so clearly a majority weren't Wealthy in the GURPS sense. Polybius' equipment of two pila, a sword, a bronze pectoral, a shield, and a helmet probably cost on the order of a month or two's pay for a skilled worker. That wouldn't have been out of reach for most families. And certainly, 20 years after the setting of this campaign, the Romans were sending a mind-boggling percentage of their census population to overseas wars (a paper strength of 40,000 to 60,000 legionaries out of a census population of around 300,000 adult men).
Training in ancient warfare is an interesting problem. A lot of it, especially individual weapon skills, seems to have been left to the soldiers and their families in many armies.
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01-20-2010, 08:29 PM | #44 |
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
Careful there. In your period, the majority of nobles and therefore, the vast majority of tribunes and higher, would be plebs.
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01-20-2010, 08:30 PM | #45 | |
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
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01-20-2010, 08:53 PM | #46 | |
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Re: The Illyrian Sport
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Senatorial Wealth: Multimillionaire Equites wealth: Filthy rich 1st Class(cavalry): Very Wealthy Triarii and Princepes: Wealthy or Hastati: Comfortable or Normal wealth(adventurer) Velite: Normal Wealth.
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