Affording a spaceship?

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I see them more like boats: If you own one just to get around you are wealthy, but there are lots of people who own cheap, rugged versions that provide their lively hood.

A good comparison! Yes, boats are probably a better analogy for most space settings.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Realistically, spaceships as seen in rpgs (and movies and TV series, etc) do not exist and all prices for them are made up. The 10s and hundreds of millions you see some places are just someone's idea of what a ship _should_ cost. It's no more "realistic" than any other number.

There's real, and then there's realistic. I'm not talking about anything real.

[Verjigorm]

Truckers, Commercial Fishermen, all sorts of people who own large, expensive, specialty vehicles typically have something in common: they don't start out owning their own rigs. They are financing them from a bank or similar credit institution and paying for them on a monthly or annual basis. Ships and aircraft are significantly expensive that to own one outright, you generally do need to be a multi-millionaire.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Yes, and I think I covered that in the rest of my post.

I wasn't necessarily arguing with your post; merely adding my own thoughts which used your post as a springboard.

[dcarson]

An obsolete ship can often go for a lot less the it would cost to build. Upgrading to not obsolete costs more then building a new one since you have to dismantle hard to dismantle parts first. Selling for scrap gets very little because of the same so selling it cheap to someone optimistic enough to think they can make money with it is the best bet. Being obsolete to make money you have to take jobs that pay above market rates which means dangerous and/or remote. Which is perfect for many gaming campaigns.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

RAW, affording a spaceship means you've invested a significant chunk of points into the necessary advantages.

Yes, and likewise playing a SEAL or a cinematic secret agent or a superhero means investing a significant chunk of points into the appropriate skills and advantages. So if the GM wants the PCs to be SEALs or spies or supers he or she sets an appropriate budget and the problem is solved.

Like a SEAL, a spy, or a super, a spaceship owner is not a 150-point character. So if the GM wants the PCs to have a spaceship he or she either sets an appropriate budget and insists that it be spent on the ship, or else assigns the ship and doesn't count it against the characters' build budget — which comes to the same thing.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by dcarson

An obsolete ship can often go for a lot less the it would cost to build.

Well, the issue isn't really what that ship would cost to build, but what a ship of comparable capacity would cost to build -- the value of a merchant ship is basically the amount of money you can make off of that ship (prorated for time) -- so anything that increases the operating costs of the ship or reduces its expected lifespan also reduces its value. If the extra upkeep on an old ship exceeds the interest payments on a new ship, it's basically valueless -- except that realistically different people have different interest rates. If a new ship has operating costs of $100,000/month, and an old ship has operating costs of $200,000/month, a company with a good credit rating that would pay $80,000/month in interest on a new ship prefers a new ship, but a disreputable organization that would have to pay $120,000/month in interest prefers the older ship, as long as they can get it for less than $20,000/month in interest. Also, since insurance/self-insurance costs are based on current value, the old ship is useful to send on risky trips, which is exactly the sort of thing PCs specialize in.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Anthony

the value of a merchant ship is basically the amount of money you can make off of that ship (prorated for time)

Discounted rather than prorated.

except that realistically different people have different interest rates.

Well, sort of. Discount rates aren't a personal characteristic as is sometimes taught, they're an optimisation parameter, and when various people are in equilibrium with the same capital market the difference between their interest rates is down to a risk premium, which is to say an insurance cost….

… never mind.

Your basic point is correct, that the value of a commercial vehicle is the present value of the expected stream of chargeable transport services it provides minus running costs (plus scrap value on scrapping). Such assets are to be found in the possession of people who can borrow cheaply. An owner who faces high borrowing costs or lucrative investment opportunities elsewhere finds it advantageous to economise current running costs (such as maintenance) at the cost of heavily-discounted operating profits in the distant future, and therefore either depreciates his asset or sells it to someone with a lower discount rate.

[Kilmore]

A ship could also be an NPC.

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Kilmore

A ship could also be an NPC.

Well, it kiiinda is in that the ship computer contains an AI.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Well, it kiiinda is in that the ship computer contains an AI.

I've had a campaign where it was a PC.. the AI, had a mana-coroccessor and was a Run mage, the ship was a precursors artificer that was collecting samples (the other PCs) and observing them