Micro Managing Illusions?

[RVA_Grandpa]

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

Of course, this discussion of absurdities has provided food for thought. What if summoned beings, which no one knows the origin of, are actually real beings from a short time in the future. When the spell ends, whether they are alive or dead, they are returned to their time at the exact second they left and are restored to their life with no memory of what has transpired. See Star Trek, "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" for an example.

In a recent session our wizard cast an illusion of my character to help battle a baddie. It might explain the psychotic episodes I've been having...

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa

In a recent session our wizard cast an illusion of my character to help battle a baddie. It might explain the psychotic episodes I've been having...

And that would be a different situation than the one postulated earlier. In this, your character would know it is an illusion, but he has a vested interest in not disbelieving. For all the wizard you were fighting knew, possibly you did have an identical twin or at least he didn't know which one to disbelieve.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

Originally Posted by hcobb
If an evil wizard summons an illusion of yourself to fight yourself does this illusion have all of your abilities, even when striking your friends who don't know you have these abilities?




I agree, but it should be a moot point when I disbelieve in myself and the illusion vanishes.

We had a lengthy debate over all of this many months ago (I want to say around February or March of last year), wherein I contended that a player should have an increased opportunity to disbelieve something that is obviously an illusion (e.g., an illusion of himself, or an illusion of a companion that is standing right next to him). The question was also raised, based on an anecdote of one of Ty Beard's games, as to whether an illusion of himself would fight as well has he thinks he does (example: he thinks he's much better than he really is) or merely as well as he actually does. In the former circumstance, he might be totally overmatched by his illusion, since he believes himself to be incredibly capable, whereas in the latter he would merely be evenly matched (until he could disbelieve himself).

[hcobb]

Turn sequence works great for this trick:

Turn 1: Staff2Snake
Turn 2: Snake strikes before the wizard casts again and shows the target that it has a 1d+2 attack that ignores armor. Then the wizard casts illusion.
Turn 3: Both snakes use the super strikes.

[RVA_Grandpa]

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

And that would be a different situation than the one postulated earlier. In this, your character would know it is an illusion, but he has a vested interest in not disbelieving. For all the wizard you were fighting knew, possibly you did have an identical twin or at least he didn't know which one to disbelieve.

Despite you ignoring my psychotic episodes...

[He did, didn't he?][Yes he did, now shut up!]

The subtle point I was making is that an illusion, let alone two of a PC has to be unbelievable. I wasn't the GM, but if I was I would have questioned it on the spot. Any creature at least as smart as a prootwaddle is going to think it is strange for a twin of a warrior to appear out of thin air.

Sorry if my comments didn't fit into your discussion.

[There, I told him.][I could have done it better.][Oh shut up!]

[warhorse11h]

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa

Despite you ignoring my psychotic episodes...

[He did, didn't he?][Yes he did, now shut up!]

The subtle point I was making is that an illusion, let alone two of a PC has to be unbelievable. I wasn't the GM, but if I was I would have questioned it on the spot. Any creature at least as smart as a prootwaddle is going to think it is strange for a twin of a warrior to appear out of thin air.

Sorry if my comments didn't fit into your discussion.

[There, I told him.][I could have done it better.][Oh shut up!]

I wasn't ignoring it, but I've had cause to note over the years that my sense of humor is frequently misconstrued and in the interest of not giving offense, I chose to stick to the topic. And your comments fit right into the discussion. If my reply gave offense, I apologize.

On the example you gave, I didn't think about something that should have been mentioned. The wizard you were fighting had two opponents already when your twin showed up. Disbelieve is an action and in the midst of a fight, the wizard may have been somewhat too busy to take a turn to disbelieve and do nothing else that turn. Plus, as I remember it, you have to disbelieve a specific illusion, not all of them at the same time.

[RVA_Grandpa]

Da nada, mi amigo.

Originally Posted by warhorse11h

The wizard you were fighting had two opponents already when your twin showed up.

I guess I wasn't clear in my description. There was no opposing wizard in my scenario. We had our wizard and several other fighters and we were dealing with two demonic creatures described to us by our GM as Pink Horrors. I don't know their IQ, but when one dies it is replaced with two smaller Blue Horrors.

Granted they were enjoying their time ripping me and our tin gollum to pieces to bother disbelieving the illusion of me that appeared. I just think casting an illusion of a character already in play is self defeating. I prefer to have our wizard cast the illusion of or summons a bear instead.

I recently got slapped down in another thread for my humor. Don't ever stop joking!

[JLV]

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa

I recently got slapped down in another thread for my humor. Don't ever stop joking!

There's a lot of that going around...

[Skarg]

Generally, you're allowed to cast Illusions that people know can't be true, including duplicating yourself during combat in view of the enemy. The disadvantage is generally just that they know one is an Image or Illusion and so may try ignoring one they think may be an Image, or Disbelieve one they think is an illusion, but it doesn't result in the Image or Illusion not being there (or killing you) just because you're sure it's an illusion.

Except for the grey category where things like Octopus illusions are concerned.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Generally, you're allowed to cast Illusions that people know can't be true, including duplicating yourself during combat in view of the enemy. The disadvantage is generally just that they know one is an Image or Illusion and so may try ignoring one they think may be an Image, or Disbelieve one they think is an illusion, but it doesn't result in the Image or Illusion not being there (or killing you) just because you're sure it's an illusion.

Except for the grey category where things like Octopus illusions are concerned.

There's an obvious advantage to YOU casting an illusion of yourself in combat -- especially if you can cast a shadow at the same time and both of you step into it. The issue comes up if I cast an illusion you to send against you -- obviously you're not going to be fooled as to which of you is real and which is the illusion...and you should find it remarkably easy to disbelieve such an illusion. At least that's the argument that logic requires me to make.