Ghosts and Mind Copies - The Identity Question

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Molokh

(1) You yourself admitted that they're arbitrary.

The initial assignment is arbitrary, but once it has been made, it can be maintained. For example, if there were a set of videocameras imaging the room, it would be possible through frame by frame tracking to take copies GPa, GPb, GPc, and GPd as of time Tj (j>i) and equate each of a, b, c, and d unique to one of 1-4 for GP1, GP2, GP3, and GP4 as of time Ti, by observing which ones were on the same space-time trajectory. That fact that different objects have different space-time trajectories is a fundamental fact about physical reality. You do exist in physical reality, don't you?

Bill Stoddard

[Fnordianslip]

Originally Posted by whswhs

...The Bill Stoddard who is an organic being, and the hypothetical Bill Stoddard who is a program being run on a highly sophisticated computer, are certainly distinguishable; in fact it's quite easy to do so...

Bill Stoddard

Organic, inorganic, who cares?!? Much more important than the question of identity is the question of how much more GURPS material would be written with multiple Bill Stoddards! Come to think of it, with enough copies, we'd all have access to a GM as well.... Hmmm, note to self, must ghost Bill immediately...

[mindstalk]

If George Washington's axe is no longer his axe after having the haft and blade replaced on separate occasions, are you no longer you after the metabolism of your cells replaces all the atoms in your body?

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by Molokh

If it has meaningful differences from the other one, it is meaningful. Otherwise it's just superstition.

Who defines "meaningful" ?

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Ah, but by committing a crime, one of them creates a difference for the purposes of needing to be punished.

So by only one ghost taking an action identity is destroyed, and A, B and C now have to treated as different entities. Why doesn´t taking some other action, like being in a different location, destroy identity between ghosts A, B and C too ?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Ah, but by committing a crime, one of them creates a difference for the purposes of needing to be punished. This also applies to current humans:

Back in the day, vicky-2007 was Ler's SO, but vicky-2009 is Lee's SO. Naughty things allowed to vicky-2007 and to vicky-2009 are different. But both are vicky.

Um, no, that's not internally consistent with your arguments.
If vicky-2007 commits a crime, vicky-2009 pays for that crime.
In the same way if ghost wabbit duplicate 002 of 101 commits a crime, then all 101 wabbit copies will pay for that crime, since they're all copies of the same identity.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Um, no, that's not internally consistent with your arguments.
If vicky-2007 commits a crime, vicky-2009 pays for that crime.
In the same way if ghost wabbit duplicate 002 of 101 commits a crime, then all 101 wabbit copies will pay for that crime, since they're all copies of the same identity.

Because if vicky-2007 commits a crime, it is a natural consequence that vicky-2009 also committed that crime back in 2007. However, if vicky-2007 or -2008 has been punished, vicky-2009 no longer meets the condition needed for the punishment.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Pomphis

So by only one ghost taking an action identity is destroyed, and A, B and C now have to treated as different entities. Why doesn´t taking some other action, like being in a different location, destroy identity between ghosts A, B and C too ?

Depends on purpose of identification. It makes you, for example, stop being suspect of some crime in New York, but it doesn't stop you from being Pomphis.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Because if vicky-2007 commits a crime, it is a natural consequence that vicky-2009 also committed that crime back in 2007. However, if vicky-2007 or -2008 has been punished, vicky-2009 no longer meets the condition needed for the punishment.

So riddle me this, wabbit-001 wants to kill vicky-2009 but knows he'll be caught and destroyed for doing it, so before he commits the crime he spawns wabbits 002-101 and sends them out with instructions not to kill vicky-2009 unless he fails.
Wabbit-001 then kills vicky-2009 and is promptly captured and destroyed.

Are you going to reward Wabbit-001 by permitting Wabbits 002-101 to go unpunished?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

So riddle me this, wabbit-001 wants to kill vicky-2009 but knows he'll be caught and destroyed for doing it, so before he commits the crime he spawns wabbits 002-101 and sends them out with instructions not to kill vicky-2009 unless he fails.
Wabbit-001 then kills vicky-2009 and is promptly captured and destroyed.

Are you going to reward Wabbit-001 by permitting Wabbits 002-101 to go unpunished?

That's a good question. Can we punish for wanting to kill someone? I don't know. But in this case, wabbit (all mentioned numbers that were 'in the know') in general was engaging in conspiracy with the intent of assassination. That's punishable.