Does appearance decrease with age?

[ed_209a]

GURPS is cinematic adventurer-centered. I think ALL cinematic adventurers age well by default.

PCs age into Sean Connery, Harrison Ford, and whoever plays The Most Interesting Man in the World. Include Sophia Loren and Raquel Welch where appropriate.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by lexington

Not necessarily. Sean Connery, for instance, gained the Impressive option as he got older rather than losing levels of Attractive.

What is going on here may be that realistically, out here in the real world of evolutionary biological facts that we live in (even though many are in severe denial), visual attractiveness works in one way for men and in a radically different way for women.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Fish

A more complete form of personal and cultural attraction would be ... well, complicated and arbitrary.

Although it could be as simple as certain characters having the Classic Features perk on p. 4 of Power-Ups 2 and other having the "Prefers <whatever>" quirk implied there. Taken together, these could account for up to +3 to effective Appearance, which is significant. And either or both could occur, in various combinations, on a society-wide or even racial basis.

Originally Posted by Fish

Appearance out-of-the-box just seems to suggest, at a minimum, symmetrical features, no obvious blemishes, no signs of disease or deformity or malnutrition.

That is correct. It amounts to "no innate HT penalty for Sex Appeal," in many ways. You could still have low HT, of course. And of course there's the bonus to general, totally nonsexual reactions for how impressive and generally awesome you look.

Originally Posted by Langy

In the long run? Yeah, I think it's safe to say you get uglier as you get really, really old. Not 60 old or 70 old, but the 90 or 100 year old people are pretty much universally less attractive than they were at younger ages, especially in a sexual sense (which is the primary component of GURPS appearance, unless you have one of the special modifiers on it).

See above. That's just HT loss due to aging, which lowers the HT-based Sex Appeal skill or its default (which operates at about +10 when the target has raging hormones, needless to say). That isn't the same as becoming unimpressive with age, though.

Originally Posted by ed_209a

GURPS is cinematic adventurer-centered. I think ALL cinematic adventurers age well by default.

This is absolutely accurate. GURPS assumes that PCs earn points and their value just goes up, up, up. Vain PCs can and will plow some points into Appearance, if GM and setting allow. I've actually run several campaigns where certain PCs got sexier with age because they had more points to spend. That's just how heroes are . . . they get better with age, which could mean better at fighting, computer hacking, debating, repairing engines, casting spells, or bringing the sexy.

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

What is going on here may be that realistically, out here in the real world of evolutionary biological facts that we live in (even though many are in severe denial), visual attractiveness works in one way for men and in a radically different way for women.

Do note that for every paper that aims to promote this view, there's another that refutes it. Realistically, the jury is still out. Way out, and possibly not convening again this century. Meanwhile, it's pretty clear that popular fashion plays a bigger role. Boyish guys become hot and then not; silver-bearded guys, likewise. The same goes for young girls, and then older and presumably "experienced" women (for which there's a rude acronym). I'd consider any game that hard-wired a connection between age and looks, or between the way each sex perceives the effects of age on looks, as fantasy. Leaving it arbitrary and unconstrained at least makes it easy to adjust for this week's fashion, in this society over here.

[the_seeker]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'm 43, and frankly, I find it hard to see anyone under 25 as anything but "a kid." The celebrities I find attractive are mainly women in their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

I'm also 43, and you just explained why I find River Song far more interesting and attractive than Amy Pond. :)

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That isn't obvious at all. Lots of people peak in looks in their 40s, 50s, or 60s instead of in their teens, 20s, or 30s. Many people have a good five years at some random point in their life. Some folks make it to middle age being lazy and dumpy, realize that this sucks, improve their fitness and hygiene, and see a huge leap in looks. And of course the rich and beautiful can freeze time for a couple of decades these days.

And a fair number of people simply don't look their age. (I discovered today that one of my co-workers thought I was a decade younger than I am, for example.)

Originally Posted by ed_209a

PCs age into Sean Connery, Harrison Ford, and whoever plays The Most Interesting Man in the World. Include Sophia Loren and Raquel Welch where appropriate.

Considering that Raquel Welch became a cosmetics model at age 67, I'd say including her is always appropriate.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by the_seeker

I'm also 43, and you just explained why I find River Song far more interesting and attractive than Amy Pond. :)

I find both attractive, but then both are courageous characters with strong personalities. I also found Donna Noble attractive, while Martha Stewart was merely 'okay', and Rose Tyler was, at best, 'cute'.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I find both attractive, but then both are courageous characters with strong personalities. I also found Donna Noble attractive, while Martha Stewart was merely 'okay', and Rose Tyler was, at best, 'cute'.

When I first saw Rose Tyler, I though she was in her thirties. She was english person on the street homely, in my opinion, not just Hollywood homely.

Donna Noble looked average to me.

The black doctor woman was attractive.

I think this whole discussion steps over the fact that age is not an unimportant base from which to determine attractiveness.
Everyone has their preferred age category from which appearance modifies.
I for example, prefer looking at women in their 20s, so average 30s is slightly less attractive than average 20s, for me.
I could also say that fat average is slightly less attractive than slender average to me.
In all, physical attractiveness is only barely a universal among those of the same culture, and almost random among individuals.

[Langy]

See above. That's just HT loss due to aging, which lowers the HT-based Sex Appeal skill or its default (which operates at about +10 when the target has raging hormones, needless to say). That isn't the same as becoming unimpressive with age, though.

I'm not sure the HT loss due to aging covers it unless people typically lose five or more points of HT before they die of old age.

People who don't get uglier as they age either make their aging rolls or other stats get decreased instead of Appearance. That doesn't mean Appearance isn't one of the things that can be decreased due to aging. It just means sometimes people don't survive long enough to lose Appearance and Appearance loss isn't guaranteed.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Langy

I'm not sure the HT loss due to aging covers it unless people typically lose five or more points of HT before they die of old age.

I think that is very likely, yes. 'Dying of old age' seems to be, in game terms, losing enough HT so that things which have zero chance of killing a healthy adult are fatal to you.

[ed_209a]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I think that is very likely, yes. 'Dying of old age' seems to be, in game terms, losing enough HT so that things which have zero chance of killing a healthy adult are fatal to you.

This is a very valid factor, especially with Pneumonia. Another factor, that I don't think HT loss completely covers is organ system failure. Put simply, your parts just wear out over time. When one finally completely fails, you die.

This sounds like a HT roll, where you die on a crit fail. I'm not sure when you would start this though, and whether it would be a yearly/quarterly/monthly roll. Maybe when X points of HT are lost due to age.