Examining "Once Per Day" in TFT: Solution or Problem?

[JLV]

I certainly understand the need for accuracy in some regards, and I don't think the wall clock answer is going to work (primarily because time in the game does not coincide with reality, and even a fanatic like myself has never gamed for 24 hours straight), but at the same time, I also understand where Anthony is coming from logically speaking.

This is a game that asserts that your characters do whatever the players say around the table, even if they are just joking among themselves (though I think the intent there was to minimize said "out-of-character" joking around and keep people focused on the game), so worrying about the precise Game-Turn in which a power suddenly "switches back on" seems a bit, I don't know, "excessive?" or maybe "overkill" is the word I want.

Personally, as a GM, I never let that sort of thing overwhelm the actual play of the game. If the precise Game-Turn of recovery is absolutely necessary to the action currently on-going, and I don't have a strong feeling one way or another as to how that should be played (and it's a given that I don't know the precise second at which the power suddenly switches back on, because I sure as shootin' didn't track the five-second turns in between), I just have the player involved roll a die to determine if he gets lucky (as long as sufficient in-game time has passed to make it plausible). In other games, they'd expend a luck or "karma" point to make it so, but TFT doesn't have that kind of mechanism (unless I import it from DCG), so a simple die roll (which really IS luck, isn't it?) suffices for me.

Jim, you're a mathematically inclined guy, for obvious reasons, and you raise some valid points, but we've already established that I'm just lazy as heck! ;-)

[Dave Crowell]

Do we really want to need to know exactly which combat turn of the day it is at every given moment of game play? Especially when in reality "combat time" is not always going to start on the same five-second intervals. What happens is combat one starts at 12:01:05, but combat two starts at 13:15:27? 27 seconds past the minute is out of sync with the previous 5 seconds past the minute.

And how do we know exactly and precisely what "game time" it is at every possible moment of play? If we need to track time that precisely for 24 hour or per diem effects, we need to be able to know at least to the combat turn at all times, including when the party is just joking around amongst themselves. Exactly how much game time do they spend (in combat turns) checking the contents of a room? How many GMs actually want to cound the number of combat turns for every combat and advance the clock accordingly, each and every time? I know I don't want to time my players' conversations with a stopwatch so I can elapse the proper number of combat turns against the spell clock.

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by JLV

I certainly understand the need for accuracy in some regards, and I don't think the wall clock answer is going to work

Who can tell JLV? I have asked Anthony 3 times, to tell us *how* he would convert his clock-on-the-wall idea to combat-scale... 3 times, since he brought up the idea of "convert to a wall clock time"; but so far... he has produced no prescribed method as to *how*.

I guess that monster is picking it's fangs with the bones of Anthony's adventure party by now.

Originally Posted by Dave Crowell

Do we really want to need to know exactly which combat turn of the day it is at every given moment of game play?

No, not in *every given moment* Dave, just when they matter; as in the narrative combat example contained in POST#59 perhaps you missed it?

JK

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Who can tell JLV? I have asked Anthony 3 times, to tell us *how* he would convert his clock-on-the-wall idea to combat-scale... 3 times, since he brought up the idea of "convert to a wall clock time"; but so far... he has produced no prescribed method as to *how*.

If I'm that concerned about time keeping, it is not hard to just note: 'Combat X started at 12:43PM; the spell was cast on turn 4 and thus starts at 12:43:20; it will end at the same time the next day'. We have standardized methods for time tracking, there is no sane reason to avoid using them in favor of in-game turns.

I'm at loss for how this was a confusing concept, but apparently it was.

[Jim Kane]

Which *next day*? Next day in Real Time or Next day in Game Time?

And, if you mean the Next day in Game-Time, *how* do you know what time it is?

JK

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

Which *next day*? Next day in Real Time or Next day in Game Time?

Game time.

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

And, if you mean the Next day in Game-Time, *how* do you know what time it is?

By tracking it. If, as a GM, I care enough about accurate time tracking to worry about exactly what turn a 24 hour spell ends on, I necessarily have to be keeping an in-game clock (probably not updated in combat, just update post-combat with the total duration, but between combats certainly), and this clock is needed for all other extended tasks (even 15 minutes resting is impractical to track in rounds).

[Jim Kane]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Game time. By tracking it. If, as a GM, I care enough about accurate time tracking to worry about exactly what turn a 24 hour spell ends on, I necessarily have to be keeping an in-game clock (probably not updated in combat, just update post-combat with the total duration, but between combats certainly), and this clock is needed for all other extended tasks (even 15 minutes resting is impractical to track in rounds).

Okay, so how does your Game-Time clock work; *how* does one use your method?

JK

[Skarg]

I have done that sort of tracking, mainly when dealing with GURPS healing spells which have penalties for casting them more than once per day per caster per subject (and other house rules I added), but also with things like magical effects that last hours or days (in TFT, potions tend to last one or more hours or a day).

I don't quite get what you'd propose as better than what seems to me the obvious way to handle it. I memorize and/or write down the time of day when the effect started and/or will end. Then I keep track of time during play, often in minutes or hours rather than days, letting the players know and/or approve time advances as seems appropriate to me and to them (i.e., I often use a suggestive tone of voice and slowly say "an hour later . . ." giving them a chance to say, "wait, I want to X..." or whatever, so we collaboratively advance time.

There is an issue that can come up about how accurately the players know what time it is. And I also would tend to house rule that magical durations tend to vary a bit randomly off exactly 24 hours to the second, anyway, unless there's some compelling reason that should be reliable and consistent for every casting or potion. At least, enough that, combined with the roughness of times spent in travel, rest, breakfast, etc, I can write down a time 24 hours away in minutes rather than precise seconds.

And, there's the question of whether a caster/drinker/item-user knows somehow that a period has expired 24 hours later the instant it happens, or whether they get any warning it's about to happen, or not, for each spell or potion effect. If the effect is obvious (I can't see now so I bet my Dark Vision potion wore off), then it's clear, but not necessarily for all. With GURPS healing spells, for example, I decided the 24 hour danger period should be a little fuzzy and unknown unless someone made a successful diagnosis or magical analysis, and they wouldn't know the exact time if they had a method for that, to add to the fear & uncertainty of pushing the envelope on those powerful spells.