Questions about incantation magic

[Mr. Hamato]

I want to build a spell that acts like a stun grenade (B277), with an additional side effect that blinds and deafens the target for a few seconds in it fails it's HT roll by 5.
Should I just add limitations and enhancements to the affliction? for example:

Affliction, Stunning (Based on HT, +20%, Sense Based (Vision and Hearing), -20%, Secondary Effect: Blindness, +10%, Secondary Effect: Deafness, +4%) [+3 SP].

Or perhaps use the sense based area of effect spells (Pyramid #3/114) and add 120 SP to the spell?
What about Based on HT? can I use the enhancement as is? from Pyramid #3/114 it would seem that I can't and I have to add an effect to the spell for the purposes of casting time.

An additional issue is that the secondary effects would last for at least 50 minutes (10 minutes per margin of failure). How do I shorten this duration?

On an unrelated issue: When creating indirect damage spells, Can you use Guided as a damage enhancement? Since Guided does not suffer from any range penalty this makes it a very accurate attack and you don't have to spend a round on aiming after casting the spell.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

I want to build a spell that acts like a stun grenade (B277), with an additional side effect that blinds and deafens the target for a few seconds in it fails it's HT roll by 5.
Should I just add limitations and enhancements to the affliction? for example:

Affliction, Stunning (Based on HT, +20%, Sense Based (Vision and Hearing), -20%, Secondary Effect: Blindness, +10%, Secondary Effect: Deafness, +4%) [+3 SP].

You can't add enhancements to Affliction like this.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

Or perhaps use the sense based area of effect spells (Pyramid #3/114) and add 120 SP to the spell?
What about Based on HT? can I use the enhancement as is? from Pyramid #3/114 it would seem that I can't and I have to add an effect to the spell for the purposes of casting time

.

You'd need to use Repercussive Rituals from Pyramid #66 to achieve that effect. If it's based solely on HT, then you'd add "Based on HT" (+20%) and apply the +20% to the final SP total.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

An additional issue is that the secondary effects would last for at least 50 minutes (10 minutes per margin of failure). How do I shorten this duration?

Good question. Hmm. I think Repercussive Rituals is likely the way to go again. Actually, No. Strike that. Rewind. I added Repercussive Rituals to DF19 natively. It's on p. 15 of that book in a box called "Limited Spells" I just didn't allow the inclusion of enhancements. I think I would allow it but change the ratio - each +5% worth of modifiers adds another effect for the purposes of Casting time and I wouldn't allow more than +20% per level of Incantation Gift to be added to a given spell.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

On an unrelated issue: When creating indirect damage spells, Can you use Guided as a damage enhancement? Since Guided does not suffer from any range penalty this makes it a very accurate attack and you don't have to spend a round on aiming after casting the spell.

You could do that, sure. I personally would go with Homing because screw obstacles it's time for the mage version of Runaway with Tom Selleck.


If I were to write up this spell, it would look something like this:

Mage Flashbang
Spell Effects: Create Elementalism x2.
Inherent Modifiers: Afflictions, Stunning + Altered Traits, Secondary Blindness & Deafness + Area of Effect.
Skill Penalty: Path of Elementalism‑12.
Casting Time: 1 hour.

Everyone within 20 yards of the spell's epicenter must win a successful contest of your skill vs. their HT. Failure means they are stunned for seconds equal to their margin of failure and can roll once per second to snap out of it. Failure by 5 or more results in Blindness and Deafness for 10 seconds per point of margin of failure (minimum of 50 seconds). The targets may roll once every minute to recover from this.

Typical Casting: Create Elementalism (6) + Create Elementalism (6) + Affliction, Stunning (0) + Altered Traits, Secondary Blindness & Deafness* (3) + Area of Effect, 10 yards (100) + Range, 20 yards (5). Notes: This spell adds Based on HT (+20%) and Reduced Duration, 1/6 (Accessibility, Altered Traits only, -20%) (-12%) increasing the number of Effects needed to cast the spell by two. 120 SP.
* Cost is 1/5 normal, just like a Secondary effect for afflictions.

There is some mucking with the guts of the system there and a few GM calls, but it's the only way to achieve the exact effect you are looking for.

[Mr. Hamato]

Thanks for the answers! I want to use Incantation magic as the only magic system available to wizards in my game and I am trying to wrap my head around it.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Mage Flashbang...

That's more or less what I was looking for, though It comes out as a very expensive spell, mainly due to the large area of effect.
How do I go about making it Sense Based (Vision and Hearing)?

A few other questions:
1. Can I use Strengthen Transfiguration to give someone Altered Trait: Regeneration or is that against the "No Healing" rule?

2. Can I use Transform Elementalism to create an opening in a stone wall? does the wall resist? do I need any other effects other than subject weight for the part of the wall I want to change?

3. How much light is created with Create Elementalism? what if I want to light an entire room?

4. The rules state that "No one can be the subject of more than two “buffing”
incantation spells." but what if the buffs are on different subjects? a buff on a sword for more damage, one on the robes for more DR and one on the mage for better skills?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

Thanks for the answers! I want to use Incantation magic as the only magic system available to wizards in my game and I am trying to wrap my head around it.

Cool! I always like to hear reports back on DF19 - I think it's a solid system - though there are a few things I'd change.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

That's more or less what I was looking for, though It comes out as a very expensive spell, mainly due to the large area of effect.
How do I go about making it Sense Based (Vision and Hearing)?

p. 8 of Pyramid #3/114: Mind Over Magic sums this pretty well. Making it Sense-Based would change the flavor of the spell you're going for though.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

A few other questions:
1. Can I use Strengthen Transfiguration to give someone Altered Trait: Regeneration or is that against the "No Healing" rule?

Tricky. You could give a character Regeneration by turning them into a monster that regenerates, but you could not give them Regeneration as an altered trait. Incanters cannot heal and this would go against that.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

2. Can I use Transform Elementalism to create an opening in a stone wall? does the wall resist? do I need any other effects other than subject weight for the part of the wall I want to change?

That would be Control Elementalism, but yes, you could. No you don't need any effects other than subject weight to pull this off.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

3. How much light is created with Create Elementalism? what if I want to light an entire room?

Torchlight is standard, use Bestows a Bonus to cancel out more Vision Penalties or Area Effect to increase the radius. I'd require a second Control effect to specify what kind of light: sunlight, moonlight, etc.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

4. The rules state that "No one can be the subject of more than two “buffing”
incantation spells." but what if the buffs are on different subjects? a buff on a sword for more damage, one on the robes for more DR and one on the mage for better skills?

The buffing rule is for the subject. Buffing a sword is different from buffing yourself. So yes, they can stack. A lot of GMs have issues with buffing spells in DF19 and to them I always say "Dispel them" "NMZ them" etc. Magic shouldn't unbalance a game as long as you're using the things to cancel it out.

[Mr. Hamato]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I think I would allow it but change the ratio - each +5% worth of modifiers adds another effect for the purposes of Casting time and I wouldn't allow more than +20% per level of Incantation Gift to be added to a given spell.

That seems kinda harsh to me. you need -40% in limitations to reduce the effects by one, but only 5% in enhancements to increase it?
I think I would keep it as every full +20% (like you suggested in Pyramid 3/114 p.5).

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Making it Sense-Based would change the flavor of the spell you're going for though.

Why would it change the flavor of the spell? I want to make it so only creatures that see and/or hear can be affected. Am I getting Sense Based wrong?

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Incanters cannot heal and this would go against that.

That's what I thought - I just wanted to be sure. My problem is that two of my players have bachelor's degrees in biology and one has a Ph.D. I can see them going: "Oh, so having someone sprout bat wings is easy, but healing them is sooo difficult.."

Of course, you could always use Necromancy and take 1-2 HP from every one in the group and heal the injured character with that.
I think i'll write up that spell.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

A lot of GMs have issues with buffing spells in DF19

I can't see where it's different from regular magic buffing spells. If someone wants to spend what amounts to 13% of his prepared spell slots (3 out of 23) on buffing one character I have no problems with that - and it should make that character more powerful. Of course, the enemy might do the same (buffed up ogre, anyone?) or just cast a spell ward or dispel with an area effect at the start of combat.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Cool! I always like to hear reports back on DF19 - I think it's a solid system - though there are a few things I'd change.

None of my players have any experience in GURPS so i'm trying to build a large grimoire before the game to ease them into this magic system. We'll see how it goes.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

That seems kinda harsh to me. you need -40% in limitations to reduce the effects by one, but only 5% in enhancements to increase it?
I think I would keep it as every full +20% (like you suggested in Pyramid 3/114 p.5).

You know what? I forgot ALL about that box. Ignore thread-me advice, use Pyramid-me advice.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

Why would it change the flavor of the spell? I want to make it so only creatures that see and/or hear can be affected. Am I getting Sense Based wrong?

I mean, you could, feels like it would change it from an area spell to whoever can see/hear it to me.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

That's what I thought - I just wanted to be sure. My problem is that two of my players have bachelor's degrees in biology and one has a Ph.D. I can see them going: "Oh, so having someone sprout bat wings is easy, but healing them is sooo difficult.."

It is an intentional decision that it cannot heal. Wizards cannot heal in DF and neither can incanters. If you want to house rule it, go ahead. No one will stop you. :-)

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

Of course, you could always use Necromancy and take 1-2 HP from every one in the group and heal the injured character with that.
I think i'll write up that spell.

Vampirism is the only way the caster can heal himself. Also intentional, since wizards can do the same. He can't transfer such HP once stolen though. He could create a potion or scroll that lets him give that spell to others, but that's it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

I can't see where it's different from regular magic buffing spells. If someone wants to spend what amounts to 13% of his prepared spell slots (3 out of 23) on buffing one character I have no problems with that - and it should make that character more powerful. Of course, the enemy might do the same (buffed up ogre, anyone?) or just cast a spell ward or dispel with an area effect at the start of combat.

Then change it however you like. But that's how RAW incantation magic works. I might allow a perk like Reduced Footprint from Thaumatology: Magical Styles to let you exceed the buffing limit by one for a specific spell, but as was pointed out in playtest without that rule things got out of hand.

Originally Posted by Mr. Hamato

None of my players have any experience in GURPS so i'm trying to build a large grimoire before the game to ease them into this magic system. We'll see how it goes.

That is a very good idea. I did the exact same thing for my urban fantasy campaign "The Chronicles of Ceteri" - it helped a lot.