Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2008, 07:33 PM   #1
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default A subtle question of Magic and Death

Suppose you have this healthy chap with an adjusted HT roll of 16.

Suppose he is severely injured and rolls a 17 on a Death Check. He has failed but not failed by more than 1 or 2 so it's a Mortal Wound rather than instant death. With the 17 we are also avoiding questions of Critical Failure and religious questions (Hierokybocracy "rule of sacred cubes") involving whether you always die when you roll an 18.

So he's in the Mortally Wounded condition and may even be conscious. That's left to the GM's decision (see B. 423).

Now let us suppose that he has the Enchanted Item for the Stop Bleeding Spell. The Item part is important. The Spell itself would only stabilize his Mortal Wound. The Item _prevents_ Mortal Wounds.

So, he's at least -1x HP and he's failed a HT check but he's not Mortally Wounded (and has not met any other conditions for automatic death). What is he?

In an actual game situation (and this could come up in a game I'm running) I would simply say 'Unconscious" and move on but I am academically curious as to what the "correct" answer should be as Gurps sees this thing.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2008, 07:43 PM   #2
Witchking
 
Witchking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Well my PC wizard has a HT of 10, bleeds like a pig(no hemophila tho), and heals poorly as he is too stubborn to take to bed. I may not wait for the offical answer on this thread...
__________________
My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch
America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman
Witchking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #3
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
So, he's at least -1x HP and he's failed a HT check but he's not Mortally Wounded (and has not met any other conditions for automatic death). What is he?

In an actual game situation (and this could come up in a game I'm running) I would simply say 'Unconscious" and move on but I am academically curious as to what the "correct" answer should be as Gurps sees this thing.
Going by a strict reading of the text, your interpretation seems not unreasonable, although the actual condition might be deemed 'incapacitated'. I'd rule the item as being an immediate and automatically successful stabilization. For the purposes of the moment, it would be essentially the same, but you'd still have to make the recovery roll afterward.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2008, 11:52 PM   #4
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
Suppose you have this healthy chap with an adjusted HT roll of 16.

Suppose he is severely injured and rolls a 17 on a Death Check. He has failed but not failed by more than 1 or 2 so it's a Mortal Wound rather than instant death. With the 17 we are also avoiding questions of Critical Failure and religious questions (Hierokybocracy "rule of sacred cubes") involving whether you always die when you roll an 18.

So he's in the Mortally Wounded condition and may even be conscious. That's left to the GM's decision (see B. 423).

Now let us suppose that he has the Enchanted Item for the Stop Bleeding Spell. The Item part is important. The Spell itself would only stabilize his Mortal Wound. The Item _prevents_ Mortal Wounds.

So, he's at least -1x HP and he's failed a HT check but he's not Mortally Wounded (and has not met any other conditions for automatic death). What is he?

In an actual game situation (and this could come up in a game I'm running) I would simply say 'Unconscious" and move on but I am academically curious as to what the "correct" answer should be as Gurps sees this thing.
If the item actually stops mortal wounds, it's magic negates the failed roll. Treat it as if he had succeded at the HT roll.
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 01:43 PM   #5
Taellosse
 
Taellosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MA, USA
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain
If the item actually stops mortal wounds, it's magic negates the failed roll. Treat it as if he had succeded at the HT roll.
I have to agree--the item would succeed for him. So, if he's also conscious, and the damage he's taken hasn't crippled any of his limbs, he's theoretically still able to stand and fight.
__________________
-Taellosse

Imagine if every Thursday your shoes exploded if you tied them the usual way. This happens to us all the time with computers, and nobody thinks of complaining.
-Jeff Raskin
Taellosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 06:24 PM   #6
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain
If the item actually stops mortal wounds, it's magic negates the failed roll. Treat it as if he had succeded at the HT roll.
No, no. It prevents Mortal Wounds, but he still failed his roll. Therefore he's dead. :)

I'd have it result in the wearer dropping, but remaining alive and not mortally wounded - as if he'd made the check by the margin of his levels of Hard to Kill. Alternatively I might just rule the thing grants a level or two of Hard to Kill.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 06:26 PM   #7
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert
No, no. It prevents Mortal Wounds, but he still failed his roll. Therefore he's dead. :)

I'd have it result in the wearer dropping, but remaining alive and not mortally wounded - as if he'd made the check by the margin of his levels of Hard to Kill. Alternatively I might just rule the thing grants a level or two of Hard to Kill.
Ok, if it PREVENTS mortal wounds, he still didn't take one. The GM has already ruled out instant death. A magic item helps out it's wearer. Whoa! Stop the Presses!!!
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 08:46 PM   #8
rosignol
 
rosignol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
Now let us suppose that he has the Enchanted Item for the Stop Bleeding Spell. The Item part is important. The Spell itself would only stabilize his Mortal Wound. The Item _prevents_ Mortal Wounds.

So, he's at least -1x HP and he's failed a HT check but he's not Mortally Wounded (and has not met any other conditions for automatic death). What is he?
Hm. I'd mutter something unprintable about whoever was responsible for writing the item description, and go with "Incapacitated but stable".
__________________
What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.
― William Lamb Melbourne
rosignol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 11:03 PM   #9
sjmdw45
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin
In an actual game situation (and this could come up in a game I'm running) I would simply say 'Unconscious" and move on but I am academically curious as to what the "correct" answer should be as Gurps sees this thing.
"Mostly dead."

Sorry, couldn't resist. More seriously: my first thought was "unconscious," but on reflection I think Captain-Captain is correct. An item which prevents mortal wounds treats mortal wounds as successes on HT rolls, so by RAW he'd be fine. In practice I would prefer to houserule the item in question so it converted a failure to a Hard-to-Kill-like temporary coma.

-Max
sjmdw45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 03:56 PM   #10
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: A subtle question of Magic and Death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The Item _prevents_ Mortal Wounds.
I think the most balanced approach would just be that if you fail by 1 or 2 points the item treats it like you succeeded by 0.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.