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Old 07-10-2018, 10:25 PM   #121
Some Guy From Mars
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Default Re: New Skills

How about a break down between Talents and Gifts. When creating a new character, roll 3/d six for each Talent said character purchases. If the roll is a seven or less, the character is considered 'gifted' in the area and acquires the Talent at no cost.

Of course, use the same procedure whenever a character learns a new talent. The dice roll, obviously, needs to be made in the presence of a reputable GM.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:04 PM   #122
ak_aramis
 
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
Default Re: New Skills

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
There seem to be a lot of people saying that Talents are too expensive and the costs should be reduced so Heroes can have more Talents. I don't agree with this at all. As I've said before, to me the Talent system of ITL is the key feature of TFT and shouldn't be mucked about with much, if at all.

I like the way that you are forced to make difficult choices when you generate a character and those choices will define that character from then on. It may not be exactly possible for a beginning character to have all the features of a Conan or a Fafhrd or an Elric, but I'm fine with that. There are other rule systems that allow that level of detail and I don't like any of them.

I would ask that we don't change much for the new edition KS
Some are proportionately overpriced. a few are underpriced. I've not seen any real movement for "no limit on skills" but a lot of "we allow extra skills past a cap as a house rule"... Me, I put a (more generous than SJ's) attribute cap, but allowed adding another "plus" in slots as if adding a full attribute point each... which worked nicely, as I didn't allow slots until Int was maxed out. But that was one campaign. And only one player got to that point... the Prootwaddle.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:37 AM   #123
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Expert Skills - Some suggestions.

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Originally Posted by luguvalium View Post
This is what I had been thinking about: Someone who knows a weapon well usually trains with a particular weapon and they don't automatically have an an advantage with all weapons even if they are similar. A talent for Weapon Expert ( weapon ) This require a minimum DX of 13 and will give the character a +3DX to hit with that particular weapon and also limit the optional rules of Aimed Shots to only those with Weapon Expert ()
Hi Luguvalium,
I was rereading this thread and found I had not commented on this post. (Likely because I agreed with it.) But on rereading, I have some arguments with what you suggest.

I generally do not like talents that just give you +3 DX, I would suggest you might like to have these advanced talents do +2 damage with the appropriate weapons. (+1 for bows, but they can be shot twice per turn, and already are super useful, being able to do ranged damage.)

The number of memory slots are again very highly limited, so the upper level talents should INCLUDE the lower. So Sword ii goes in the same memory IQ (mIQ) slot as Sword i. For example if Sword i cost 1 mIQ, then Sword ii would cost 2, but include the first level in it.

I think that the idea that you have to have a certain level of competence before you can use the aimed shots is brilliant. (It helps keep these complex rules away from new players until they are running more experienced characters. And it is a step up in competence and ability reflected in the growing ability with the weapon skill.)


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Originally Posted by luguvalium View Post
[These new talents] will replace Thrown Weapons, Missile Weapons, and Fencing. Weapon is a specific weapon like Dagger, or Rapier, or Longbow. The GM can decide if another weapon is similar enough to qualify. Each Expert(weapon) talent cost 2 points. ...
Hmmm... Yes. If you are going to give each of these advanced talents a bonus to DX, then Missile Weapons, Thrown Weapons should definitely go away. Well, Thrown Weapons could retain the ability to ready and throw in one turn.

I wouldn't mind Missile Weapons so much if it reduced the range penalty by 3, but didn't increase your DX.

I note that if all of your Expert Talents behaved identically, you would only need ONE entry for all of these different talents. A single short paragraph would generate several new talents. This would also automatically help a few orphan talents (like Pole Weapons), which have no way to improve them beyond the single basic talent.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:38 AM   #124
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Zot's suggested new skills.

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Originally Posted by luguvalium View Post
... As mentioned above new talents in Streetwise, Persuasion, Intimidation, and Deception could be useful.
Hi Luguvalium, Zot, everyone.
Yes, I like Zot's talent list as well. However, I would dump the torturing talents. They are too awful and too ugly. With magical telepathy, they are not needed.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:53 AM   #125
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Zot's suggested new skills.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Luguvalium, Zot, everyone.
Yes, I like Zot's talent list as well. However, I would dump the torturing talents. They are too awful and too ugly. With magical telepathy, they are not needed.

Warm regards, Rick.
Thanks, Rick!

I'm not a fan of evil PCs but I do like to spec out talents, spells, etc. that I expect to be taken only by evil NPCs. At 1 wizard in 300, I expect many small, organized groups of criminals don't have access to a wizard with telepathy and will engage in torture, just like they do today.

As for playing out torture scenes, if I were to do that, grisly details would mostly be off-screen.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:32 AM   #126
JLV
 
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Location: Far northern California
Default Re: New Skills

I have to say that I agree with Rick on this one -- "Torture" as a talent sets a tone for the rules that I don't really think is constructive to the game. If you want to have torture in your campaign, people can do it without "legitimizing" it as a talent. (My personal opinion here; YMMV.)

On the other hand, things like Persuasion, Deception, etc., would be really useful things for people to have. And even "Intimidation" doesn't have to involve torture -- a really big and muscular guy can be intimidating without doing a thing! (Though I'm not sure if that rises to the level of a "talent" or not.)
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:40 PM   #127
Steve Jackson
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: New Skills

No question, there is a body of knowledge behind torture. But I agree with those who don't want to include it as a an official talent.

Also, it would boil down to a contest of Evilness vs. Will, and we don't have stats for those things :)
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:22 PM   #128
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: New Skills

Hey, I just listed the first bunch of talents that came off the top of my head -- I'm not trying to push Torture into TFT :). I just happen to have read a lot of Elric books...
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Old 07-11-2018, 05:55 PM   #129
Dave Crowell
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Default Re: New Skills

A thought or question about Talents/Skills in TFT: Are they exclusive abilities? That is to say if you do not have the Talent can you not do the thing? So if I do not have the Boating talent I cannot row a boat across the harbour.

Or do Talents give you a bonus to do the thing and give you extra skill and proficiency? If I do not have the Boating talent I can row across the harbour, but it will be slow and clumsy. If I have the Boating talent I can row gracefully across the harbour, know about different types of boats, can make small repairs, etc.

If in every case you cannot do the thing if you do not have the Talent then players are going to chafe that their character concept requires too many Talent slots. See the discussion above about building Aragorn in TFT.

Perhaps a note could be made about which Talents are required to do the thing at all. Physiker for example.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:49 PM   #130
luguvalium
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Expert Skills - Some suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post



I think that the idea that you have to have a certain level of competence before you can use the aimed shots is brilliant.
Thank you. I like the aimed shots and other optional rules, but they do add complexity if everyone is doing it. This was my attempt at including the rules but limiting them. Similarly Dagger Marksmanship would be limited to those with Dagger Expertise. Disarming would be limited to Experts, too, and so forth.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post



Hmmm... Yes. If you are going to give each of these advanced talents a bonus to DX, then Missile Weapons, Thrown Weapons should definitely go away. Well, Thrown Weapons could retain the ability to ready and throw in one turn.
If there are going to be rules for a "quick draw" then they would be limited to Experts, too. But only small weapons would be eligible, you should not be able to quick draw a Great Sword.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post


I wouldn't mind Missile Weapons so much if it reduced the range penalty by 3, but didn't increase your DX.
Thats another thing I had considered as well. Its been decades since I played with an upper level character, so I don't remember the problems of having them.
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