Banestorm and gaining a fief?

[thom]

OK, so in Banestorm page 45, we have:

A noble title almost always has a fiefdom attached to it...Many fiefdoms, however, are not accompanied by titles, being held by untitled knights (and many knights have no fiefdoms at all). The lowest-ranking title is Baron (Status 4), the holder of a single significant fief.

Soooo...does this seems to imply/allow for GMs to give fiefs to PCs who are only Status 2 or Status 3 and are knights (for example, they have Feudal Rank 1+, since I'm using those ruled from SE)?

If I did that in my upcoming game, would the PC have to pay character points to gain a fief in this manner?

[Anaraxes]

A fief is property, so it would count as Wealth (or Independent Income) whether or not you also have Status and Rank. If you charge CP for advantages acquired in play, Wealth in particular, then you'd charge for a fief.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by thom

If I did that in my upcoming game, would the PC have to pay character points to gain a fief in this manner?

In general, I would not do so. If something happens in play that results in a PC's eyes being put out (irreversibly), he's now Blind, and worth -50 points, but I wouldn't say, "okay, take 50 points of other traits to compensate." The character is just worth that much less. If you as GM determine that the king would entrust him with a fief (and, of course, the Duty that goes with it), that's just going to add that many points to his character sheet, to pay the cost of the advantage. The character is just worth that much more.

I would reserve charging points for traits that a character chooses to acquire, not traits that the GM just confers as a result of external events.

Bill Stoddard

[Anaraxes]

Incidentally, my approach is the same as Bill's -- no charge (or bonus) for advantages and disadvantages acquired as a result of play. Hence the "if you charge...". I'm not recommending that you do so.

B291 seems to say that this is RAW for 4e, which is a change from 3e.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by whswhs

In general, I would not do so. If something happens in play that results in a PC's eyes being put out (irreversibly), he's now Blind, and worth -50 points, but I wouldn't say, "okay, take 50 points of other traits to compensate."

...

I would reserve charging points for traits that a character chooses to acquire, not traits that the GM just confers as a result of external events.

Bill Stoddard

I would give them "blind: -0" not "blind-50".
Furthermore I WOULD allow a that character to choose to gain advantages without being charged for them. I.E. That character can ask the party werewolf to bite them, and the first 50 points will come from increasing "blind -0" to "blind -50".

[dcarson]

You want Blind -50 because they are a lower point cost character now. This matters for things like Allies.

I often give points in the form of Advantages but will let people spend points to modify what I award. Save someone and I will award part of the points in the form of Favor, they owe you. If a player wants to spend points to make that Ally and that isn't unreasonable I'll let them.

I also reward points differently to different PC sometimes. In a GURPs 1889 campaign when the woman that inherited a medical drug company was rescued after she and her parents were captured by martian on a expedition. The gentry PCs got stock in the company (Independent Income), the navy officer got a fancy presentation sword (Reputation) and the lower class PCs got cash (points for money). Same number of points, but appropriate to the character in that era.

So in a Banestorm campaign if the King owed you and a fief is reasonable I might give one and note the points on the character. If I didn't think he owed you that much but it wasn't unreasonable I'd let you spend points to raise the reward from a lesser thing to a fief. Was going to award membership in a Order say. Spend points making that a fief also is reasonable. But I wouldn't just let you spend points on a fief out of the blue.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by whswhs

In general, I would not do so. If something happens in play that results in a PC's eyes being put out (irreversibly), he's now Blind, and worth -50 points, but I wouldn't say, "okay, take 50 points of other traits to compensate." The character is just worth that much less. If you as GM determine that the king would entrust him with a fief (and, of course, the Duty that goes with it), that's just going to add that many points to his character sheet, to pay the cost of the advantage. The character is just worth that much more.

I would reserve charging points for traits that a character chooses to acquire, not traits that the GM just confers as a result of external events.

Bill Stoddard

I wouldn't charge for it, either. It's a reward earned in play.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by dcarson

You want Blind -50 because they are a lower point cost character now. This matters for things like Allies.

That's the whole reason for "Blind -0". They shouldn't also have their allies nerfed because they got stabbed in the eye. Nor when they go to the party mage and say "give me new eyes" should they need to pay 50 points, yet if their friend started with "blind -50" does the same he absolutely should.

Originally Posted by combatmedic

I wouldn't charge for it, either. It's a reward earned in play.

Personally I would make it depend on if they "earned" it or not. Going to the party vampire and asking him to bite you? Your paying the points. Inventing a new nanovirus at TL 8 and injecting yourself with it? Go right ahead you aren't being charged for it. (Also pray for a lack of glitches.)

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Lamech

Personally I would make it depend on if they "earned" it or not. Going to the party vampire and asking him to bite you? Your paying the points. Inventing a new nanovirus at TL 8 and injecting yourself with it? Go right ahead you aren't being charged for it. (Also pray for a lack of glitches.)

Just so that we are clear: I was answering a question about a fief awarded in play. This has nothing at all to do with vampires.
:)

[thom]

Originally Posted by whswhs

In general, I would not do so...If you as GM determine that the king would entrust him with a fief (and, of course, the Duty that goes with it), that's just going to add that many points to his character sheet, to pay the cost of the advantage. The character is just worth that much more.

I would reserve charging points for traits that a character chooses to acquire, not traits that the GM just confers as a result of external events.
Bill Stoddard

Thanks Bill, that's how I was leaning. But the bolded part of your quote has me thinking. Do you subtract the Duty from the total cost of the Feudal Rank and Social Status when awarding the fief, to figure out how many points to add to his character sheet?