Uncommon situation with the Girlfriend card

[Shinnizle]

Greetings gentlemen,

One of my co-workers owns the Munchkin Fantasy base set along with a couple of expansions. They're all in French, so bear with me here, I certainly haven't nailed down all the cards' English names yet.

A situation came up the other day, and we would like some clarification, if possible. Player A is looking for trouble and plays a low level monster. That monster is then boosted by Player C, who plays a +10 monster enhancer, a +/-10 monster enhancer that needs to be played on a previous monster enhancer and the Girlfriend card, which duplicates the monster. The monster is now definitely unbeatable by Player A, so he seeks help in Player B, who is a Wizard.

After deciding on the shares, they agree to join forces. Player D then decides to play a card (no idea what is its name in English) along with a monster from his hand to replace the monster they are fighting. The card also states that the monster enhancers on the removed monster are returned to the owner's hand.

So here are my questions (I know you're supposed to post only one question per thread, but these all pertain to this specific situation):
1. Does the Girlfriend card return to Player C's hand? Is it considered a monster enhancer?
2. Had the Wizard charmed the Girlfriend, would Player A and B get the treasures from it if Player D replaces the original monster with one in his hand, that Player A and B end up defeating?

[MunchkinMan]

Okay, so low Level Monster plus a +10 Monster Enhancer plus a +/-10 Enhancer Enhancer and Mate.

Mate creates a separate Monster which actively duplicates the original. Illusion, the last card you referred to, can be played on either the original or the Mate (since they are both separate Monsters, regardless of the link). If you replace the original Monster, the Mate duplicates the new Monster.

So:

1. The Mate card does not get returned.
2. The Treasures would be based on the final Monster, so had the Wizard charmed the Mate, then Illusion had been played, the final Treasure count would be based on what the new Monster was.

[Shinnizle]

Thank you Erik. I forgot the card's name is actually Mate, not Girlfriend. The card I played wasn't Illusion, but it has a similar behavior. Illusion doesn't actually return monster enhancers to their owner's hand, nor does it put the original monster into your hand, as far as I can recall.

So if the original monster is replaced, the Mate actually changes too? That's interesting to say the least.

[MunchkinMan]

I'll have to hunt around and see if I can determine what card that was, then. . .

Suspended Animation, perhaps? (Though, that doesn't replace the Monster with one from your hand. . .)

Ahhhh, Switcheroo. Yeah, Mate would stay.

[Jay]

The Treasures would be based on the final Monster, so had the Wizard charmed the Mate, then Illusion had been played, the final Treasure count would be based on what the new Monster was.

Let original monster give 1 treasure
I'm charmed the Mate and play Ancient on original monster and kill it.

The Treasures would be based on the final Monster, so I take 1+2 from charmed and 1+2 from original = 6 treasures?

Or the Treasures would not be based on the final Monster, so I take 1 from charmed and 1+2 form original = 4 treasures?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Jay

Let original monster give 1 treasure
I'm charmed the Mate and play Ancient on original monster and kill it.

The Treasures would be based on the final Monster, so I take 1+2 from charmed and 1+2 from original = 6 treasures?

Or the Treasures would not be based on the final Monster, so I take 1 from charmed and 1+2 form original = 4 treasures?

How do you play Ancient after you charmed a monster? You have to discard your entire hand to charm a monster, so you can't have anything left in your hand afterwards...

Assuming somebody else played Ancient, it sounds like you're asking what happens if the following occurs:

1. Monster is worth 1 treasure
2. Mate is played on the monster
3. You, as a Wizard, discard your hand to Charm Mate
4. Someone plays Ancient on the monster
5. You kill the Ancient monster

I'd like to say you get 4 Treasures as it seems weird for the pile of Treasure left by the charmed monster to change in size because the creature that was charmed away became stronger, but given MM's ruling on Illusion/Switcheroo, I guess you would get 6 Treasures after all.

It does seem strange to me that Mate seems to still be changing things even after it has been discarded, but I can't see MM's response meaning anything else.

[Jay]

and another one

Originally Posted by FAQ

Q. Some cards, like Magic Lamp, Illusion, and Pollymorph Potion, let you get rid of ONE monster. If you get rid of a monster, does its mate (or, in the expansions, its relatives) also leave? In other words, is Mate an enhancement card like Ancient or fully separate like Wandering Monster additions?
A. A Mate is like a Wandering Monster. There are now two monsters, and you have to get rid of them individually. If you play the get-rid-of-it card before somebody plays Mate, though, there's no monster left for the Mate to join, so Mate can't be played.

but

Originally Posted by "MM'

If you replace the original Monster, the Mate duplicates the new Monster.

For example: Plutonium Dragon + Ancient + Mate + Enraged = Two Dragon, 35 combat strength each (total 70)

I play Illusion with Lame Goblin, and...

FAQ ruling: Lame Goblin + Ancient Enraged Plutonium Dragon = 1 + 35 = 36 total combat strength (cause I "illusioning" one from two dragon, and remaining dragon still enhanced)

MM ruling: Lame Goblin + Lame Goblin Mate = 1 + 1 = 2 total combat strength (cause original dragon discarded with all his enhancers, "and Mate duplicates the new Monster")

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Jay

FAQ ruling: Lame Goblin + Ancient Enraged Plutonium Dragon = 1 + 35 = 36 total combat strength (cause I "illusioning" one from two dragon, and remaining dragon still enhanced)

This is not what the FAQ says. If you change the card that Mate was copying, it definitely starts copying the new card instead, just like MM's example. I've seen this ruled several times in the same way on the forums and it's always been consistent. If you played Illusion on the Mate, then it would have the effect you say there, but MM's ruling would agree with that too.

The issue in this thread is that MM is saying that Mate still continues to copy the card even if you already discarded Mate.

[Jay]

Faq says "There are now two monsters".
Mate "copy" only monster enhancers.
Illusion is not monster enhancers.

Pollymorph Potion is replace the original Monster with a parrot, but Mate do not turn into parrot too.
----
for first question:

1. Plutonium Dragon + Mate
2. Someone plays Ancient
2. I play Pollymorph Potion
3. I kill Ancient Plutonium Dragon
4. Someone plays Dead Broke

I get only 2 levels, without any treasures?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Jay

Faq says "There are now two monsters".
Mate "copy" only monster enhancers.
Illusion is not monster enhancers.

Pollymorph Potion is replace the original Monster with a parrot, but Mate do not turn into parrot too.

With regards to Pollymorph Potion, yes. But Mate copies two things, both the monster card and its enhancers. Illusion switches one monster card for another monster card, so Mate starts copying the new monster card. Illusion doesn't remove one monster and add a new monster, it turns one monster into a different monster.

I do see how the FAQ is confusing in that regard, though. MM explains why Illusion is still covered by the FAQ here. It's just saying that Mate is not automatically discarded by the effect of Illusion.

----
for first question:

1. Plutonium Dragon + Mate
2. Someone plays Ancient
2. I play Pollymorph Potion
3. I kill Ancient Plutonium Dragon
4. Someone plays Dead Broke

I get only 2 levels, without any treasures?

I was originally going to agree with this, then remembered that Dead Broke is not a Monster Enhancer. The Mate would not copy the Dead Broke card, so it would still be leaving behind 6 Treasures. So you get 2 levels from the Dead Broke, Ancient Plutonium Dragon and 6 Treasures left behind by a parrot that used to be an Ancient Plutonium Dragon's Mate.