Ensorcel vs. Item

[dds_ks]

Originally Posted by starslayer

on the topic of wizards going to the trouble of hanging remove curse Remove curse is also really good for stopping a lot of scary combat magic, like flesh to stone, entombment, burning/rotting death, charm, madness, and enslave so I would say it's a pretty important spell for any wizard who expect to fight other wizards to have at the ready even without other considerations; [...]

Well, maybe...
... but this again is more for adventurers than for NPCs, dispelling one of those spells cast on a companion. A mage couldn't dispell Flesh To Stone or Entombment, which were aimed at himself, with a Hanged spell. Same for Charm, Madness and Enslave. Of course it could do a good job against Burning/Rotting Death, but... generally speaking, this is more a situation for for Delay. With Hang Spell, he could could save one of his minions...
... if he would care...

Originally Posted by starslayer

in a universe where enscorel exists and is sometimes used to enchant individuals it would be something that a wizard who deals with countering magic would be looking for. (they might ALSO have suspend enchantment hung for similar reasons).

Well, I would prefer to knock the Ensorcelled guy out, as I already said. Agony is my favorite.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by dds_ks

Well, maybe...
... but this again is more for adventurers than for NPCs, dispelling one of those spells cast on a companion. A mage couldn't dispell Flesh To Stone or Entombment, which were aimed at himself, with a Hanged spell. Same for Charm, Madness and Enslave. Of course it could do a good job against Burning/Rotting Death, but... generally speaking, this is more a situation for for Delay. With Hang Spell, he could could save one of his minions...
... if he would care...



Well, I would prefer to knock the Ensorcelled guy out, as I already said. Agony is my favorite.

1-NPC mages aren't allowed to have friends? They are further prevented from convincing there friends to help when they want to pick a fight (or helping there friends who pick a fight).
2-If the mage knows the spells at a level high enough to cast simply by focus they can use there hang spell when turned to stone, ice or similar (but not for entomb since that puts them into suspended animation.
3-Many of the forms of madness inflicted by the madness spell will not prevent the mage from casting remove curse on themselves (the mage may specifically want to dispel any of the phantom voices variants)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Pretty much no good reason to have the spell at all, since using Ensorcel on a harmful spell is not at all worth the effort; if you want permanent harmful spells, just write up permanent spells that are harmful and actually practical to cast. There's already examples, such as Permanent Shapeshifting.

Indeed, the same way you could create permanent beneficial spells, which Permanent Shapeshifting is also an example of.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Indeed, the same way you could create permanent beneficial spells, which Permanent Shapeshifting is also an example of.

Permanent shapeshifting, under the shapeshift rules, is not beneficial, since you have to roll vs IQ loss. Generally speaking, permanent beneficial spells are covered by enchantments.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Permanent shapeshifting, under the shapeshift rules, is not beneficial, since you have to roll vs IQ loss. Generally speaking, permanent beneficial spells are covered by enchantments.

The potential for IQ loss is a flaw [Note that it is per day, rather than per hour], but the real kicker to the Permanent version is that the subject has control over changing back.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Permanent shapeshifting, under the shapeshift rules, is not beneficial, since you have to roll vs IQ loss. Generally speaking, permanent beneficial spells are covered by enchantments.

......and Ensorcerel is an Enchantment.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

......and Ensorcerel is an Enchantment.

The concept behind Ensorcelment isn't bad; it's just dubiously priced, and if done properly should be a conventional enchantment, not reversed by Remove Curse.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The concept behind Ensorcelment isn't bad; it's just dubiously priced, and if done properly should be a conventional enchantment, not reversed by Remove Curse.

It's already twice as expensive to permaently put a spell on a person as a hex (200x base cost v. 100x base) for the relatively large number of spells that allow you to do that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

It's already twice as expensive to permaently put a spell on a person as a hex (200x base cost v. 100x base) for the relatively large number of spells that allow you to do that.

Dubiously priced doesn't mean it's always underpriced; at times it's overpriced. It's just not a very good mapping between price and value.

[dds_ks]

Originally Posted by starslayer

1-NPC mages aren't allowed to have friends? They are further prevented from convincing there friends to help when they want to pick a fight (or helping there friends who pick a fight).

Well, minions are at least more typical than real friends.
But if your NPC mages intend to use Remove Curse to save their friends, why would they waste it on some adventurers?
Killing up to 5 points of strength might be interesting, but then you would be vulnerable to... Flesh To Stone (again).

Originally Posted by starslayer

2-If the mage knows the spells at a level high enough to cast simply by focus they can use there hang spell when turned to stone, ice or similar (but not for entomb since that puts them into suspended animation.

And again: if the spell was planned for this situation, why should you waste it on some adventurers?

Originally Posted by starslayer

3-Many of the forms of madness inflicted by the madness spell will not prevent the mage from casting remove curse on themselves (the mage may specifically want to dispel any of the phantom voices variants)

And again: if this was the plan, it would be wasted for just some points...

In that case, it could be interesting to go to the other extreme: Buy just one Level of Strength-Ensorcelment to rip the NPC off his Life Saver Spell.
Or how many Hung Remove Curse would a NPC mage keep ready (and maintain!) indefinitely just in case some adventurers could come to raid his Dungeon/Keep/Ruin/Pyramid?